Tires

An update:

I really had a difficult time finding a consensus. I did speak to a number of respected tire dealers and I concluded there was a bit of a bias. They promoted their main lines which is understandable. I did find that Michelins, for the size I required, did not have a good following. Other than that, the field seemed to be wide open. I chose to stay with the exact tire that the coach came with from the manufacturer. The Continentals were a bit pricier than most but not by much. I am having them Nitrogen filled as I have heard it is better for the tire. They are date stamped the 15th week of 2018 so they are very fresh. I have not discussed a balancing method yet but I think I like BankShots recommended method. I am having also having a Wheel Alignment performed. There is no abnormal wear on the original rubber but for the cost and minimal down time, I feet it is worth it. FYI, I have found a buyer for the old ones. $100.00 Cdn each.

In the end I think that most tires out there are good quality and good value. All of the dealers I spoke to did recommend that tires have a life span of 5 to 7 years. I figure that I will have this one for another ten so the process will take place again.

Thanks for all of your feed back.

Darrell

 

We bought our 37 foot fiver new in 2013. Blew the first Goodyear on I20 West of Fredericksburg, TX Jan. 2015. After reading several RV forums I found that Goodyear not only had quality issues they had a damage team. I contacted them and was assigned a case #. Had to send in pictures of the damage and an estimate and take the carcass to an authorized Goodyear dealer to be shipped back to Akron. Within 3 weeks I had a check for over $1600.00. I bought the J panel, fender skirt and rubber trim from Keystone, put in insulation and covered the torn waterproof material under the slide with sheet metal, caulked it and sprayed it with truck bedliner coating. In Fredericksburg I found another tire with a silver dollar sized bubble on the inside sidewall. Changed all 4 tires out to Maxxis. On our way to New Mexico in May this year we blew one of the Maxxis tires out in BFE Kansas on I70. We got lucky, the roadside assistance sent a tire truck from a tire shop about 8 miles away. The guy put on the spare and I followed him back to the shop where they put on a set of 14 ply steel belted Hurcules tires. Great shop, these guys where like a pit crew and didn't try to Jesse James us. All the previous tires were kept at 80psi and run no faster than 65mph, the 14 ply tires run at 110#'s.Both of the old tires were shredded. I had j panel left and had some aluminum diamond tread sheet to cover the damaged waterproof material so the cost was a new fender skirt @ $185.00 and a few bucks for some other small stuff. I could see repair costs easily 7 or 8 hundred dollars. I found out that the people pulling horse trailers, stock trailers, equipment trailers, hay trailers, etc. are running 14 ply tires for a reason.

 

Making sure the tires on the coach are in tip top shape is the single most important thing to me in driving a Class A motorhome down the road. That one catastrophic blowout we had was enough to really shake us both up really bad.. As mentioned in a prior post I will never, ever use Goodyear tires again even if I get them given to me free. Just not worth it. Also I believe those Goodyears were only an 8 or 10 ply tire at best and the tire shop we use told me that a Class A coach should run nothing less than 14 ply so that's what we run now and will from here on. If you've ever experienced a blowout at 60 mph and find yourself swaying back and forth crossing both lanes of the interstate while praying that you can bring the coach to a safe stop before flipping, going off the road or sideswiping another vehicle in the process, etc. it's not something you'd ever want to go thru, believe me on that...........

BankShot.................(aka Terry)

 

Terry:

With all due respect, the"ply rating" of modern tires no longer relates to the number of physical plies of material used to build up the tire casing. It is simply a measure of the tire's load rating. That's why so many manufacturers these days cite only the Load Rating with no mention of the number of plies The original concept of "plies" was developed with cotton bias-ply tires; nothing like today's steel belted radial tires.

I fully appreciate the trauma you experienced when driving with Goodyear tires and I know that quite a few others had had the same experience. That's a perfectly valid reason for never wanting to drive on Goodyear tires again. But basing the decision on a technically incorrect comment made by some tire shop worker shouldn't be your justification. The internet is full of anecdotal information passed along as truth; we don't need more of it here.

Joel (AKA docj)

 

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Hey Joel - Appreciate your knowledge on tires and certainly don't want to be spreading stuff on this forum that isn't correct, etc. I know about how tire ratings have changed over the years with regards to ply ratings as well as speed ratings however please correct me if I am mistaken, but in reality doesn't a 14 ply tire still carry higher load rating than an 8 ply? What our tire guy was concerned about was why HR used an 8 ply tire on a large Class A motorhome in the first place as he as well as several others in the shop all said the coach was sorrily under-tired for the load the Goodyears were spec'd to carry. This is in essence what the tire guy did tell me and I guess I just didn't say it in the right way. As to Goodyear tires for RVs perhaps in the past few years Goodyear has made improvements in the tires they offer for RVs, I don't know as I haven't checked them out lately. And if so then that's a good thing IMHO. I've read about and talked with several RV owners who also had blowouts using them and it just seemed like too many negatives to allow me personally to put them on a second time around. Just wanted to clear my statements in my above post up a tad.......................

Regards, Terry...............(aka BankShot)

 

Hey there Joel -

Appreciate you knowledge on tires and I certainly don't want to be posting stuff on the forum that isn't truth or fact, etc. Please correct me if I'm wrong but don't ply ratings still have something to do with the load carrying ability of the tire itself? I know ratings have changed over the past several years in both load and speed ratings however and with that being said I need to add that our tire guy along with a couple of other guys in the shop all said that the 8 ply Goodyears that our coach came equipped with were sadly under rated for the weight they were expected to be carrying. He also wondered why HR would put an 8 ply "any name" tire on a coach the size and weight of ours. Hope that clears my post up a tad. I realize that in the past few years Goodyear may have made improvements to their line of RV tires. I can't say because I've never checked them out since our experience. I still doubt I'd ever use them again due to all the negative reviews and remarks I've heard about them since that fateful day out on westbound I-80 east of Yuma. What really got me was that the entire tread of the tire separated from the casing and thus caused the tire to simply explode. And after checking the blown tire both the insurance company and the tire shop that replaced it said it was not a retread tire. Really scary when that happens.......

Regards, Terry.................(aka BankShot)

 

Since I started this thread, I thought you might like to know what we finally wound up with. We wanted to price Hankook, Sumitomo, and Michelin, but we had trouble finding a place that sold Hankook, so we priced the other two. The place where we got our last set of Sumitomos gave us a much better price on them than Michelin, and since the last set had been really good, we decided to go with them again. We found everyone's comments to be very valuable, so thanks again for your expertise.

 

Terry:

The only thing that matters is whether the tire is Load Range G, H or J since each of those has a specific weight rating. As I said previously the ply ratings cited by manufacturers no longer relate to physical plies. They are simply a less precise "guide" as to what load the tire will handle.

I've attached a screenshot that shows that the Goodyear in a size that fits my MH has the same Load Range H rating (which is nominally called 16-ply) and is capable of carrying 6,940 pounds at an inflation pressure of 125 psi. That's the same rating that any Load Range H tire will carry.



You may not be aware that load ranges are coded into passenger car tires, but they're not easily noticed. For example, the tires for my CR-V are 225/65-17 but after the size are some numbers like 102T or 110H that lots of people fail to know the significance of. Those are load ranges which for passenger car tires range from 70 to 110. A tire with a load rating of 70 can carry a load of 761 pounds. By comparison a tire with a rating of 110 can carry a load of 2,337. (The letter after the number is the speed rating).

With passenger car tires the "number of plies" is no longer even cited, but I'm old enough to remember my first Michelin radials with something like "six radial plies and two steel belts" (or something similar). As tire technology evolved the significance of the actual number of plies was reduced since the introduction of stronger "fabrics" made it possible to construct stronger tires with a smaller number of actual plies.

But old concepts live on and it's difficult to get people to accept that some of our old "maxims" are no longer valid. IMHO you should stop worrying about "the number of plies, which isn't really the number of actual plies" and simply buy tires based on their load ratings. I recognize that Goodyear had some bad tires out there and they probably failed because of both design and production issues. But blaming the issue on the number of plies is an attempt to explain a complex subject using outdated concepts that are not relevant to modern tire design or production.

Joel

 

Great post Joel, thanks for the lesson that now makes me a tad more informed on the subject. I will check to see what the current tires load rating is as that is something I did fail to do. I will post that info once I find out. I know now going forward not to blame a tire failure on it's ply rating only............

Regards, Terry

 

Lots of great informative posts! Could someone prove/disprove another piece of tire "info"? It's implied that since Michline make a tire specifically for motorhomes, XRV, that these tires have special compounds imbeded that allow them to age more gracefully (last longer). I tried finding this in writing on Michline websites, but couldn't.

Thanks,
Chris

 

Although I can't prove it, I think this bit of internet folklore probably started when someone read that the tires are designed to cope with bumping curbs and other things RVers are likely to do. These design features are commonly found on tires designed for short haul urban trucking. I suspect that the generalized "designed for RVers" got morphed into more than was intended.

FWIW it's worth noting that Michelin has revised its warranty to reflect time from date of first usage, rather than from date of manufacture. Presumably this reflects the fact that properly stored tires shouldn't suffer nearly as much degradation with time as they would in actual use.

 

To bring a close to my other prior posts about tires I did check the load rating on both the TOYO tires we run on the back and the Coopers up front. Both are the same size and both have a 14 ply rating along with a "G" load rating designation. I checked and that is what the load range rating for our coach is. Thanks again Joel (aka docj) for all the great tire info which I'm sure a few others learned from also................

Happy Travels to everyone this summer, BankShot.............(aka Terry)

 

Joel, Thanks for the info you have provided us. I almost wish I would have waited a bit to buy my tires. In retrospect, I would still have made the same choice....but, I was sadly uninformed. I guess I should have done a bit more homework on my own but I am still a little scepitical about a lot of information on the internet. I relied more on what sales people were telling me while I was shopping. I too, was relying heavily on the tire ply as opposed to other important information such as speed rating and max loaded rate etc. I think I was fortunate in that I chose to stay with the exact tire that the Coach came with.

I don't know how many people really know what they want or need in a tire before shopping. I thought I did but I certainly wrong. I got lucky with my purchase thats all. 225/70 R19.5 14 ply is the info I put forth but not once out of the 7 retailers that I spoke with try to educate me. While they all asked me what application they would be used for, not one asked me for a GVW or anything else. I have now educated myself about my specific tires and am very happy with my choice. I know that I should not exceed 87 MPH! Who'da thought that I couldn't do a hundred??? Since I was searching for brand and model specific info I also learned that, if I treat my tires with care, I may be a ble to keep them for 10 years!! See the link http://www.continentaltire.com/news/how-long-does-tire-last.

Thanks again to all the participants. I hope that I will not have to buy tires again for a long while but now I have a better understanding of what I will need.

Darrell

PS I did google "brand specific" for recalls. There are some out there.

 

Sounds like the "4" is the rating of the tire dealer and not necessarily a 4 on the tires themselves..

 

I have bee asked where I got my info as I may be causing unnecissary concern.
RVSEF has data on well over 10,000 RV weight measurements don at RV conventions. They report a range od 52% to 57% of RVs have depending on type (trailer, motorhome 5th wheel) have been found to have one or more tire and or axle in overload and this is on vehicles where the owner care enough to pay to have the rV weighed and know they will be getting weighed. RV inflation is by law to be at lease capable of supporting the axle load rating.
DOT has conducted sessions with cars & trucks where they measured the hot tire pressure and found "studies on tire pressure monitoring have revealed that about 28 percent of light
vehicles on our nation's roadways run with at least one underinflated tire" so clearly cold inflation would be lower which raises the percent with underinflated tire.

When the data says there is such a high percentage I don't think the alarm is unwarrented. Tire failure rates normally run at below 1% for all causes but if you look at RV usage I am sure you will see much higher failure rate.

 

I'm not sure if you meant what you wrote, but what you wrote is NOT how many tire professionals tell RVers to inflate their tires. Yes, tire sizes are selected to be sufficient for the axle load rating of the vehicle, but the recommended inflation pressure should be chosen to match the actual load! This provides a better ride and more even tire wear. If the tire is over-inflated relative to the actual load, the center of the tire will wear more than the edges.

It's been explained to me by the tire dealers I've spoken with that they recommend truckers inflate to maximum to cover all possible loads, but there's no reason for RVers to do the same if they weigh their vehicles to determine actual load.

You appear to be claiming that tires are under-inflated if they are not sufficiently inflated to handle the axle load rating, but if they are inflated to meet the actual load they are being operated safely.

[QUOTE]
RVSEF has data on well over 10,000 RV weight measurements don at RV conventions.[/QUOTE]

Other than the SmartWeigh measurements done by Escapees, I'm not aware of another group doing wheel-by-wheel weights for RVers. It boggles the mind that this group could have over 10,000 such measurements since the average number of RV's at rallies is only on the order of a few hundred, at most, and only a small percentage of participants ever get their vehicles weighed. Please explain more about how this data has been obtained.

 

Other than the SmartWeigh measurements done by Escapees, I'm not aware of another group doing wheel-by-wheel weights for RVers. It boggles the mind that this group could have over 10,000 such measurements since the average number of RV's at rallies is only on the order of a few hundred, at most, and only a small percentage of participants ever get their vehicles weighed. Please explain more about how this data has been obtained.[/QUOTE]


From RVSEF web page "RVSEF began as A'Weigh We Go in 1993 as an RV weighing program. As time passed, we quickly realized that there was a need for RV weight and tire education, so we began our safety seminar programs. Our seminar programs and weighing service became the recognized source of accurate, unbiased information for the RV owner who was serious about operating his RV safely. A'Weigh We Go was the beginning of a revolution in the RV Industry, and was responsible in part for the weight disclosure labels now found in new RVs, as well as a heightened interest by RV manufacturers in the weight of their products.

In the late 1990s, we began to realize that there were many subjects other than weight safety that need to be addressed to help the RV owner, such as electrical, towing, driving, fire and others. In 2000, the Recreation Vehicle Safety & Education Foundation (RVSEF) was formed as a non-profit IRS 501(c)(3) corporation to address these needs. Beginning in 2001, the programs and services provided by A'Weigh We Go were transferred to RVSEF.

RVSEF, as was A'Weigh We Go, is not a consumer, nor industry "advocate" program, but rather a "safety advocate" program. RVSEF does not rate, endorse, or criticize products or services. It does not get involved in disputes between RV owners and their dealers or manufacturers. It does not teach or publish opinions that cannot be validated, but sticks to the facts.

Today RVSEF brings safety education to over 100,000 RVers and RV enthusiasts annually, through seminars at over 100 RV rallies, dealer shows and industry events as well as RVSEF Lifestyle, Education & Safety Conference educational conferences.

RVSEF exists solely through industry support, these supporters are sincerely interested in the safety and welfare of the RVing public as well as the health of the RV industry, we appreciate and applaud their interest. Please visit our sponsor page for more information on these companies."

 

Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards from Code of Federal Regulations:
§571.120 Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity
S5.1.2 the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall be not less than the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567.

So to clarify, the inflation specified on the vehicle placard aka Tire Placard for the tire size specified on the placard must be sufficient to support the GAWR as stated on the placard.
What I and other tire professionals say when we recommend an inflation number is to base our recommendstion based on the actual loading on the tires which is not always as high as the GAWR so we can offer an inflation based on the known weight and using the tables identify a mimimum cold inflation pressure. I also include in my numerous posts on my RV tire blog that they include a +10% inflation above the table minimum inflation. I can not speak for the tire salesmen and I doubt that many if any of them have ever been responsible for designing a new tire so I don not know their level of technical training or technical background designing numerous sixe and type tires.


Sorry if I have not been as detailed as some would want. People can PM me for more info and I can provide a link to my blog posts at that time.

 

Would like to point out Sailuns as a possible choice for tires, tho I have no experience with MH tires, just fivers and 450s. Sailuns have served me well. Also, as to balancing wheels/tires--suggest that you take a look at www.centramatic.com for another option to lead weight/beads/liquids. I haven't had a lead weight on one of my 450 wheels for over 300000 miles.
Just an opinion.
Joe

 

I usually check the tires before deciding whether to change the tires or not so I can save money. Based on tire wear, Check for any signs of damage, such as cracks in the sidewalls of RV tires.