What's happened with the new ADA pool regulations that were supposed to go into effect this summer? We came across one RV park this summer that elected to close their pool rather than install the expensive accessability equipment required. Other parks seems to be going along either blissfully ignorant of the regulation or just planning on ignoring it. Is there a new deadline or has the ADA backed down? Just curious.
The park owners we have ask about this item told me they will close the pool before they comply. High cost and little return on the money.
There were some changes and clarifications to the requirements published last spring, and some deadlines were pushed back. Revised ADA Requirements
I think what this says is that they must in fact have a lift for each pool and hot tub. If they got a moveable one before March 15, 2012, they can use that. It seems that an RV park with a pool and a hot tub would be required to buy two fixed ones now at a cost of about $6,000 each or close both the pool or hot tub. There is no extra money provided for enforcement and that is left up to the states and counties, so it may be years before they get caught. I am sure a cottage industry of slimeball lawyers will be preying on these public accommodations (including hotel, motels, B&B's and all sorts of other things). This will also cause insurance rates to go way up. This is a sad day for our country.
I suspect a lot of RV parks will be claiming an exemption under Title III: "Title III of the ADA requires that places of public accommodation (e.g., hotels, resorts, swim clubs, and sites of events open to the public) remove physical barriers in existing pools to the extent that it is readily achievable to do so (i.e., easily accomplishable and able to be carried out without much difficulty or expense). " (Emphasis added)
QUOTE(Dutch_12078 @ Sep 28 2012, 10:57 AM) [snapback]31302[/snapback] I suspect a lot of RV parks will be claiming an exemption under Title III: "Title III of the ADA requires that places of public accommodation (e.g., hotels, resorts, swim clubs, and sites of events open to the public) remove physical barriers in existing pools to the extent that it is readily achievable to do so (i.e., easily accomplishable and able to be carried out without much difficulty or expense). " (Emphasis added) Since all business owners are rich, the cost of these modifications would not be considered a burdensome expense. They might be able to argue that it would be too difficult, since business owners have never built anything by themselves, according to our president. In reality, if a business got sued for failure to comply with ADA, the cost of defending against the lawsuit would probably be the straw that breaks the back of that small business. They really only have two options, comply with the guidelines, or close the pools. When and if these regulations go into full force, you can bet there will be a small army of lawyers and their fake clients who will make the case they were so severely harmed that there wasn't a permanent lift in a pool at an RV park they never stayed in, since they had never been in an RV in their lives untill they saw the potential for some quick blackmail money, settle or be sued.
I don't know if anyone cares, but I wrote to KOA to see what their policy would be and if any of the individual campgrounds have decided to close due to the regulation. Here is their (NON-) reply: Thank you for your email. I spoke with out Facilities Development Manager and this is what he has told me: 1) all public pools are part of the new standards in being compliant with the 2010 ADA and 2) KOA, Inc. has taken an active role in keeping our owners informed as to the updates in the law and have worked with vendors to secure access for KOA owners in procuring the advice and equipment necessary to comply with the new standards. At this time we are unaware of any KOA franchise that has opted to close their pool due to the change in the new standards. Please feel free to contact us if you need further assistance. Sincerely, Tami
QUOTE(Fitzjohnfan @ Oct 1 2012, 01:38 PM) [snapback]31350[/snapback] I don't know if anyone cares, but I wrote to KOA to see what their policy would be and if any of the individual campgrounds have decided to close due to the regulation. Here is their (NON-) reply: Thank you for your email. I spoke with out Facilities Development Manager and this is what he has told me: 1) all public pools are part of the new standards in being compliant with the 2010 ADA and 2) KOA, Inc. has taken an active role in keeping our owners informed as to the updates in the law and have worked with vendors to secure access for KOA owners in procuring the advice and equipment necessary to comply with the new standards. At this time we are unaware of any KOA franchise that has opted to close their pool due to the change in the new standards. Please feel free to contact us if you need further assistance. Sincerely, Tami Curious as to why you considered this a "non-reply"? KOAs are independently owned franchises, and the owners don't have to report their every move to KOA. I would assume many businesses will wait until the final moments to make a decision. The costs of a permanent lift will be a big expense for many small businesses, I am sure some will just plain not have the funds to make such a purchase. As others have pointed out, there are parks with portable lifts that have not been used or needed since they were purchased. It is going to be a very hard decision to make to take more money out of their pockets to purchase additional equipment that will not generate any income and will never be used. If the lift costs $5000 dollars and they choose to close the pool instead, they may be well ahead even if they lose a few customers. Got a feeling it is going to be a competitive decision. Parks in very competitive markets will probably be forced to keep the pools for business reasons. Parks that are overnight parks without a lot of local competitors, or parks that are close to very popular attractions may feel this is the straw that breaks the camel's back and they will get out of the swimming pool business.
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ Oct 3 2012, 01:46 PM) [snapback]31382[/snapback] Sounds like that letter was written by a lawyer. It sounds to me like the letter was written by someone that actually understands KOA corporate's role as a campground marketing company, not a campground operator.
Why I felt it was sort of a non reply, was because it really didn't say anything. My interpretation was that "they are looking into the issue". I would hope that KOA coporate would realize that pools are a great marketing tool, and hopefully they could purchase a large number of the required lifts and pass the savings onto their park owners. I know, idealistic, but hopeful.
I don't think KOA corporate would be in a position to evaluate the pool needs of every CG in their system and provide an appropriate device for each situation. According to an article in our local paper, one area motel for example, was able to comply with the ADA requirements with an aluminum ramp at a cost of about $1500, while another motel is crying about the $8-10,000 they claim it will cost them to comply.
The guy with ramp must have a very weird pool. Is the disabled person supposed to wheel his chair down the ramp into the pool/hot tub? Do you have a link to that article? I'd be very interested to read it.
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ Oct 17 2012, 05:13 PM) [snapback]31623[/snapback] The guy with ramp must have a very weird pool. Is the disabled person supposed to wheel his chair down the ramp into the pool/hot tub? Do you have a link to that article? I'd be very interested to read it. Actually, that is exactly what they are talking about. Regulations are here (see section 1009.3) ADA standards Interesting advisory in the regs: 1009.3 Sloped Entries. Sloped entries shall comply with 1009.3. Advisory 1009.3 Sloped Entries. Personal wheelchairs and mobility devices may not be appropriate for submerging in water. Some may have batteries, motors, and electrical systems that when submerged in water may cause damage to the personal mobility device or wheelchair or may contaminate the pool water. Providing an aquatic wheelchair made of non-corrosive materials and designed for access into the water will protect the water from contamination and avoid damage to personal wheelchairs or other mobility aids.
QUOTE(joez @ Oct 17 2012, 08:15 PM) [snapback]31625[/snapback] Actually, that is exactly what they are talking about. Regulations are here (see section 1009.3) ADA standards Thank you, Joe, I was about to post the same section. I'll also add for Lindsay's benefit, this quote from the Revised ADA Requirements posted earlier in this thread: "Large pools must have two accessible means of entry, with at least one being a pool lift or sloped entry; smaller pools are only required to have one accessible means of entry, provided that it is either a pool lift or a sloped entry." (emphasis added) And also for Lindsay; Apparently the article predates the paper's online archive, so no link is available.
We installed both lifts this summer. The 2nd one was slow getting here, due to more being ordered than planned. We all originally thought we just had to have one available for both pool and spa. Then the clarification came out that one was needed at each point. And, as anticipated, neither one has been used.
QUOTE(joez @ Oct 17 2012, 08:15 PM) [snapback]31625[/snapback] Actually, that is exactly what they are talking about. Regulations are here (see section 1009.3) ADA standards Interesting advisory in the regs: 1009.3 Sloped Entries. Sloped entries shall comply with 1009.3. Advisory 1009.3 Sloped Entries. Personal wheelchairs and mobility devices may not be appropriate for submerging in water. Some may have batteries, motors, and electrical systems that when submerged in water may cause damage to the personal mobility device or wheelchair or may contaminate the pool water. Providing an aquatic wheelchair made of non-corrosive materials and designed for access into the water will protect the water from contamination and avoid damage to personal wheelchairs or other mobility aids. Although most of the discussion here has been about retro-fitting existing pools for access, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that many modern public pools are being designed and built with zero-depth entry, that is, you simply walk into them without stepping down. Although such pools are not automatically ruled to be accessible, since the slope, depth and other issues have to be considered, they do provide a design approach with fewer inherent issues.
Seems to me that the sloped entry (1" drop per foot would be a very expensive waste of money). Not surprised that your lifts have not been used. That is not surprising to me at all. This whole thing has been a huge waste of money. Many of my friends in the small lodging business are taking the position of just not complying and seeing if they can get away with it. If they get caught, then they will just close the pools. A big negative for so many people so a few lawyers can get rich suing small business folks who are struggling in this bad economy.
