I don't normally go on such a rant, but this woman just ripped us off and I thought everyone should know of it. I took in two 30# propane tanks... each hold 7.5 gallons and have been filled many times by other establishments. At this establishment, I personally saw the attendant reset the dial to an incorrect setting before filling our tanks. When I called him on his behavior, he said, "Ok, I will tell the main office that you only got 12.5 gallons instead of 15 in these two tanks." I go inside to pay for the gas only to hear him on the radio tell them it was 13.5 and the lady at the front desk tells me I have to pay for a "fill charge" as they don't fill them by the gallon. I asked her to call the park owner. Which she politely did. That is where the polite behavior ended. I spoke to the owner Alive Oltmer and was told that the Rail Road Commission (Texas' regulatory agency for propane, gas, etc) would not let her fill the tanks differently. This is hog wash to say the least. I am VERY familiar with the Railroad Commission as I have done work for the commission for years. Their rules and regulations are my bread and butter as a consultant actually. So this lady was lying to the wrong person. The bottom line, I felt so uncomfortable for the sweet lady at the front desk that I paid her in full after Alice hung up the phone on me. But it will be a cold day in ____ before I ever go back to this place. I will be filing a BBB complaint tomorrow morning as well as a formal complaint with the Railroad Commission. BEWARE IF YOU DEAL WITH THIS PLACE. THEY ARE THIEVES!! I hope she enjoys the $18.00 she ripped me off for. I hope it was worth what it will cost her in the end. By the way... their price per gallon is $3.85 which is about $1.10 per gallon more than I have paid just last week down the road in Georgetown (about 20 miles south).
If you feel so stongly , why didn't you write a review on the park. By the way that price is not out of line in many places.
QUOTE(Big Ben @ Dec 23 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]9601[/snapback] If you feel so stongly , why didn't you write a review on the park. By the way that price is not out of aline in many places. we didn't stay at that park... just went there to buy lp. but I won' t do it again
Maybe the fact that you were not staying at the campground had a bearing on the prices charged to "outsiders". We have seen different prices, for "outsiders", charged for various services rendered. This may or may not be the case, but I would bet that your not staying there was a factor in the price charged. By your posting the park is located in Texas, but what is the establishments' business name ? To be avoided, one needs the name and address.
This is a former KOA. It wasnt' very good as a KOA to start with. Unfortunately, there aren't many choices of nicer campgrounds in the near vicinity. Notwithstanding the fact that many campgrounds have higher prices for LP, it can be purchased for much less than $3.85/gaL at several truck stops along the interstate or an independent LP retailer. That info based on my living in the area mentioned. Send the two letters you mentioned. We don't need local businesses giving the area a negative image.
Hi everyone, I will not comment on the price charged per gallon, but I will let everyone know that in Texas and many other states it is common practice to charge by the bottle for filling removable propane bottles. This is not a practice of the RV park or the campground industry, but a practice of the Propane industry. It is not required by the Texas Railroad Commission to charge by the bottle, but we are required to fill vertically oriented removable bottles by weight on a certified set of scales. We charge a flat amount (a set price ) for 10 lb., 20 lb., 30 lb. or 40 lb. bottles, regardless of how many gallons they take. We do not even reset the gallon meter when filling these bottles as it is an irrelevant number. This is the practice of the propane wholesaler that I buy from and all other wholesalers that I know of. For bottles larger than 40 lbs. net and on non-removable horizontal tanks, we do charge by the gallon. Personally, when I fill a bottle that is obviously not empty or almost empty, I ask the customer if he is sure he wants to fill it because it will cost the same as an empty bottle to fill. It would not be worth our time to call one of our personnel certified to dispense propane on the radio to drop what he is doing to come fill a 20 lb. propane bottle and only charge for a gallon if that is what the bottle took to fill. We sell propane primarily as a service for our customers, another draw if you will. The expenses of purchasing the dispensing equipment, of sending personnel to Austin to train and license people to legally pump propane, of dramatically increased cost of liability insurance, and of installing specialized electrical equipment and emergency cutoff switches required by the State hardly justifies our being in the propane business if our goal was to make it a profit center for our business. I hope this sheds some light on the issue. Thanks for listening. Doug!
I'm assuming we are all talking about a park in Belton, Tx, located just south of the town right on I-35. We stayed at it several years ago when it was a KOA, and I agree it was not very good. We have relatives in the area so we reserved 3 nights, but only stayed one. The very afternoon we got there we began looking for another place and found one out on Belton Lake. The COE parks at the lake are very nice. They don't have all the amenities of a high end park, but they do have electrical (some 50 amp) and water and dump stations. Their bathrooms could use a little improvement, but it is not a big deal for us because we have on board facilities. We have seen two of their parks, and they were both nice. We stayed at the one right by the dam which sits on a cliff above the lake. The other one sat right on the water's edge. If anyone needs to stay in this area I would recommed one of these COE parks. Sorry if this got off the propane topic, but I wanted to let others know there are some decent places to stay in the area.
yes, paying per bottle is fine. But the weight was wrong and the gallons dispensed was wrong as well. My point is, they lied. They said my bottle weighed 59.5 pounds but it only weighs 51.1 pounds when I left there. I took it to another certified scale and I will indeed be filing a complaint with the RRC. I am thoroughly upset with the way they so blatantly tried to steal from me and I'm sure others. I can't comment on the park, but the COE and even the Tranquil Gardens park where I am at are much better than being stolen from. Alice messed up. And I'm going to do my best to make sure she regrets it.
Good christen people forgive especially this time of year. You sound like you are really full of hate. Couple years down the road and it won't make any difference.
Forget the psychoanalysis and it has nothing to do with christianity. The man got ripped off and he is justifiably angry. I agree with him: He should pursue it all the way.
Having read the postings here as it pertains to the re-filling of vertical propane tanks, as per the Texas Propane industry, you, the re-filler, can charge for the full capacity of that fuel container. If this is in fact the truth, all those who re-fill these vertical tanks are thieves. The consumer is paying twice or more, depending on how many times one fills his tanks, for some of the remaining propane within. One question, Parkview stated that the propane wholesaler charges him in the same manner. You mean to say that the wholesaler charges you for a full bulk tank when in fact you may have numerous gallons left in the tank when they fill your tank ???? If this is the way business is conducted in Texas, as it pertains to propane, the tourist and visitors to Texas should be made aware, as they may want to bypass Texas for a non-rip off location. And WE think New York State is bad !!!
Hi Butch, I did not say that that was the way the wholesalers charged us. I said that that was the way that the Propane wholesalers that I know of charge the general public for filling removable tanks if you take the tanks to them. I have also travelled all over the country in RVs, albeit Motorhomes, but I know that this is probably the more prevalent way of charging because of a previous business that I was in. I do not consider it a ripoff; we are charging for the labor and other costs involved in filling small containers; we are not charging for the propane that they hold. This is why travel trailers have 2 tanks; when one is empty, go fill it and run off of the other one. If anyone gets ripped off, it would be a dealer who wasted 15 minutes of time, manpower, and electricity to charge for a gallon or two of propane. especially when we are handling propane primarily as a service for our campers. I have never had a single customer who has not understood and appreciated this. In fact, we have people come from about a fifty mile radius to buy propane from us on weekends and holidays because we are open 365 days. We have filled propane after hours on an emergency basis in cold weather for people from surrounding parks, because no one else has propane because of the costs involved in getting into the business. It takes just as much insurance, training, manpower, and time to fill a half empty tank as a full one. Thanks for considering another side. Doug
I have had my motor home tank refilled at three separate businesses in the area mentioned in this thread. Today, as a matter of fact, I just had my motor home tank filled with propane. All three of places that I occasionally use when I am not on the road charges a PER GALLON fee regardless of who pulls up to the pump. Two of the three are in business to primarily fill home tanks, but service all customers – to include RVs. All three have a weight scale for removable tanks and a per gallon meter for on board tanks such as is in my motor home. The customer is charged only for the propane that is purchased. Parkview> It is admirable that you have the forethought to be available for those who need service “yesterday”. Anyone, to include myself, would happily pay for that convenience if and when needed. However, charging for “labor and other costs” and, your comment about “wasting 15 minutes of time, manpower, and electricity to charge for a gallon or two of propane” is absurd. If your local gas station differentiated between your fill up or top off with a price difference then you’d object too. Therefore, don’t be defensive if those on this website don’t take your side. Butch> I have read and appreciated many of your comments on various subjects here on this website. I know that your feelings are to the point, mainly accurate, and sincere. However, as a native Texan, I don’t think that the comment about RVers being ripped off in Texas is accurate or appealing to those of us who know this state to be otherwise…and by the way, there’s nothing wrong with New York either.
QUOTE(Parkview @ Dec 26 2007, 04:10 PM) [snapback]9647[/snapback] Hi Butch, I did not say that that was the way the wholesalers charged us. I said that that was the way that the Propane wholesalers that I know of charge the general public for filling removable tanks if you take the tanks to them. I have also travelled all over the country in RVs, albeit Motorhomes, but I know that this is probably the more prevalent way of charging because of a previous business that I was in. I do not consider it a ripoff; we are charging for the labor and other costs involved in filling small containers; we are not charging for the propane that they hold. This is why travel trailers have 2 tanks; when one is empty, go fill it and run off of the other one. If anyone gets ripped off, it would be a dealer who wasted 15 minutes of time, manpower, and electricity to charge for a gallon or two of propane. especially when we are handling propane primarily as a service for our campers. I have never had a single customer who has not understood and appreciated this. In fact, we have people come from about a fifty mile radius to buy propane from us on weekends and holidays because we are open 365 days. We have filled propane after hours on an emergency basis in cold weather for people from surrounding parks, because no one else has propane because of the costs involved in getting into the business. It takes just as much insurance, training, manpower, and time to fill a half empty tank as a full one. Thanks for considering another side. Doug Hello Parkview. I am from California and have a TT. When I need propane I usually take my tanks off and go have them filled before I leave. I am always charged per gallon. I have actually taken my TT in on my way out before and had my tanks topped off and still been charged per gallon. I have also been at at an RV park and had a tank filled and it was per gallon. I have never been charged by weight of a tank. We haven't traveled out of the state so I only know how they do it in California. As always just my opinion,
QUOTE Today, as a matter of fact, I just had my motor home tank filled with propane. All three of places that I occasionally use when I am not on the road charges a PER GALLON fee regardless of who pulls up to the pump. I've been in the propane industry so I'll address the issues that I see. 1. A motorhome tank is not the same as a portable travel trailer. Yes, a motorhome is filled by the gallon - but do not be surprised to pay a minimum fee for a fill. 2. Most RV places I have dealt with charge by the size of the portable tank - not by the gallon. It would cost me $62 to fill to 30# tanks. The guy that started this thread paid under $60 for their 2 tanks - certainly cheaper than I could do locally. Don't like it? Don't refill a partially full tank. 3. My time is worth a whole lot more than the few dollars this guy is so irate about. A war worth fighting? Not in my opinion. 4. If this is the only time you've recently felt ripped off, then you haven't been to a hospital or pharmacy lately. Write a letter about that. 5. Gas over $3 a gallon? There's another thing to write about - I don't need propane everyday. 6. Bens advice was the best on the thread. But if you can't forgive - then perhaps simply forgetting might suit you.
To RLM, Butch, Rodman, et al, RLM we also charge by the gallon to fill motorhomes and all non removeable tanks at $3.15/gallon. I wasn't going to mention what we charge, but the term rip-off has been thrown around so loosely in this forum that I found it necessary. The per bottle charge only applies to standard removeable bottles of 40 lb. capacity or less. We draw from a wide ranging area because we charge less than everyone else. The per bottle charge is actually less than the per gallon charge for empty bottles. For example, a standard 30 lb. capacity RV bottle holds 7.5 gallons of propane when properly filled; we currently charge $21.50 to fill that bottle; if we charged by the gallon to fill these bottles, the charge would be $23.62. Of course our retail prices change as our our wholesale prices change, and they haven't gone down in a while. Again, I have never had a single complaint about this from a customer. Knowledgable consumers realize that we charge less than anyone else around here and I would bet a lot less than either California or New York. If we were to charge by the gallon on these small tanks, our charge would be quite a bit more to fill an empty tank than our current charge. We would also raise our per gallon charge, probably not as high as most of you are currently paying or the $3.85 previosly mentioned, but certainly higher than $3.15/gallon. In my previous business in Virginia, I made and wholesaled fishing sinkers, jig heads, and bucktails, using propane to melt and pour aprroximately 30,000 lbs. of recycled lead per year. I was always charged a flat rate to fill my 20lb. bottles, so I simply made sure that they were empty before I filled them because it saved me money. Believe me, we are not trying to rip-off anyone by charging this way. It is simply a matter of efficiency. If we have 5 or 6 bottles lined up to fill, we just put them on the scales, fill to the proper weight, put the next bottle on the scale, etc., etc., without ever turning the pump off or going back to reset the gallon meter. Thanks for listening1 Doug
QUOTE(Parkview @ Dec 27 2007, 10:28 AM) [snapback]9653[/snapback] To RLM, Butch, Rodman, et al, RLM we also charge by the gallon to fill motorhomes and all non removeable tanks at $3.15/gallon. I wasn't going to mention what we charge, but the term rip-off has been thrown around so loosely in this forum that I found it necessary. The per bottle charge only applies to standard removeable bottles of 40 lb. capacity or less. We draw from a wide ranging area because we charge less than everyone else. The per bottle charge is actually less than the per gallon charge for empty bottles. For example, a standard 30 lb. capacity RV bottle holds 7.5 gallons of propane when properly filled; we currently charge $21.50 to fill that bottle; if we charged by the gallon to fill these bottles, the charge would be $23.62. Of course our retail prices change as our our wholesale prices change, and they haven't gone down in a while. Again, I have never had a single complaint about this from a customer. Knowledgable consumers realize that we charge less than anyone else around here and I would bet a lot less than either California or New York. If we were to charge by the gallon on these small tanks, our charge would be quite a bit more to fill an empty tank than our current charge. We would also raise our per gallon charge, probably not as high as most of you are currently paying or the $3.85 previosly mentioned, but certainly higher than $3.15/gallon. In my previous business in Virginia, I made and wholesaled fishing sinkers, jig heads, and bucktails, using propane to melt and pour aprroximately 30,000 lbs. of recycled lead per year. I was always charged a flat rate to fill my 20lb. bottles, so I simply made sure that they were empty before I filled them because it saved me money. Believe me, we are not trying to rip-off anyone by charging this way. It is simply a matter of efficiency. If we have 5 or 6 bottles lined up to fill, we just put them on the scales, fill to the proper weight, put the next bottle on the scale, etc., etc., without ever turning the pump off or going back to reset the gallon meter. Thanks for listening1 Doug I agree with Parkview and denbroncs, I'm not saying anything about getting ripped off. We pay around $4 a gallon, and for as often as we use the TT it's a bargain to me. Of course I don't agree with lumping hospitals all together but most you are right. As always just my opinion,
I've only dealt with the portable bottles, and here in SC it's always a per bottle charge. You can even take it to a grocery store or hardware store, and they simply swap tanks with you. About $18.
First let me state that my intention was not to offend anyone from any location, and if anyone was, I do apologize. The fact still remains that if a business owner requests or demands monies for a product or service that he did not provide, as an example, namely existing propane within a vertical tank, this is theft, plain and simple and no one can justify it as a cost of doing business. After all I'm sure that the certified individual who fills propane tanks has other job duties to provide other services within the Rv park. It's your business and you can operate it as you see fit, but there are going to be some Rvers who are going to be on their guard and may just choose to bypass your establishment, and or others who practice the same. No clarification as to the fee charged is going to justify theft. I'm very sure that the State of Texas Attorney General would not look favorable on this business practice. Just an ex-business man's opinion ! PS: Thanks you Vern and Ranae for bring this business practice to the attention of the Rving public.
