We were in the Devils Tower, Wyoming area over Labor Day weekend. We decided to spend one night at the local KOA and a second night at the Park Service campground inside the park. The KOA was adequate but nothing special in spite of the rate of over $50. The campground in the park was only $12 but did not have any hookups. We were well prepared for boondocking, so we enjoyed the bigger spaces and closer view of Devils Tower while spending way less money. We attended a Park Service evening program at the campground amphitheater. The guest speaker was an elder and educator from the Lakota tribe. His presentation was about Native American traditions and tribal knowlege of astronomy. A large part of the program involved explaining how sacred Devils Tower is in Native American culture. During the presentation we started to hear amplified rock music coming from the direction of the KOA which was about a mile away. It got louder and louder until it became difficult to hear the speaker. The dignity of the program and tranquility of the setting were extremely compromised. After the program we walked back to our campsite and had to close all the windows in our trailer to try to block out the sound. We could hear the music and feel the bass vibrations right through the walls. We could only imagine how loud it must be for the people actually camping at KOA. After a couple of hours of not being able to sleep anyway, we drove down to KOA to see what was going on. In the tent area of the campground was a group of bikers with a stage set up and a band playing at full blast. The stage was fully equipped with lighting and amplifiers. We had thought maybe KOA had organized a show to entertain their guests, but no, this was a private party. This went on until at least midnight possibly longer. We put foam plugs in our ears and kept our fans going and finally went to sleep. This only worked because we were a mile away. The KOA campers were probably out of luck for getting any rest until the party was over. We like live music as well as anyone, but the inappropriateness of this event was astounding. I cannot imagine why KOA would allow a small private group in tents to alienate the hundreds of other people in their campground who had paid good money for a family-oriented campsite in a world-class natural setting. Not to mention all the people they disturbed well beyond the immediate area. A business providing services at the entrance to a National Park should show a little more respect.
The noise problem you encountered likely happened for the same reason that most harpy riders feel it is just fine to have exactly zero mufflers, illegally, and no one does anything about it. Or many if not most harpy riders use glaring high beams in complete disregard to any courtesy. It happens because of disregard on the part of many motorcyclists, and lack of any enforcement by police or concern for anyone else. And by the way my oldest daughter was murdered by a Harley rider. Harley motor tattooed on his arm. Anyplace around sturgis around the rally time is a place to avoid. Btw spell check changed the name Harley to harpy, that was not intentional on my part.
The Sturgis Bike rally was a month ago. 99% of bikers, Harley included, are regular people. Sorry that someone got killed by someone who owned a Harley but unless the bike fell on them or ran them over without a rider, the bike didn't kill them. I am sure there is a case where someone was killed by someone who owned an RV, yet we don't consider all RVers killers. I have no idea why there was a concert at the KOA, but apparently they felt it was beneficial to the park. A concert that runs until midnight over Labor Day is not a terrible violation of quiet hours, in my opinion, though I would expect the park to make it known to all the guests well before the date of the event. However, there is even a small chance that the concert came about almost spontaneously. I was at a park in California where a major entertainment figure was staying in his tour bus. A little bit of goading later, the clubhouse piano was wheeled outside, some amplifiers and speakers connected and we had a private concert and believe me, no one complained about the show running into the wee hours of the morning.
kcmoedoe- The event you described was apparently open to all campers and sanctioned directly by the campground owners. The event at Devils Tower was organized and attended only by the small group of bikers in the tent area. Nobody likes to hear someone else's party that the rest of us are not invited to.
QUOTE A concert that runs until midnight over Labor Day is not a terrible violation of quiet hours, I certainly disagree. If the owners wanted to allow this, then they should have made them take the entire park and keep the noise level down to not bother the surrounding area. People have no right to foul up somebody else's Holiday weekend. We stayed at Sturgis Campground twice this summer during the slow season. We had no biker problems. but we have had many in the past from the biker shows here in Florida. It seems that these regular folks when they get in a group lose all sense of decorum and don't even think about bothering others. I have seen it many, many times. They could have had just as much fun if the music was low enough to be heard 1/2 mile away. There is probably an ordinance against this.
We were at the same presentation and did not appreciate hearing "Margaritaville" during. However we were in a tent at the KOA and imediately went to sleep as soon as our heads went down. I was not happy with the KOA for many reasons that weekend and have not been thrilled with them before but if you want any amenities and want to be less than 9 miles away this is the only option.
QUOTE(RFCN2 @ Sep 7 2011, 10:36 PM) [snapback]27520[/snapback] The noise problem you encountered likely happened for the same reason that most harpy riders feel it is just fine to have exactly zero mufflers, illegally, and no one does anything about it. Or many if not most harpy riders use glaring high beams in complete disregard to any courtesy. It happens because of disregard on the part of many motorcyclists, and lack of any enforcement by police or concern for anyone else. And by the way my oldest daughter was murdered by a Harley rider. Harley motor tattooed on his arm. Anyplace around sturgis around the rally time is a place to avoid. Btw spell check changed the name Harley to harpy, that was not intentional on my part. No, it was not, as MOST Harley riders are against excessive noise. We know that it will lead to regulations that would be detrimental to al motorcycle enthusiasts. Many cities, and states ARE enforcing loud exhaust on motorcycles, and MOST Harley riders are in support of this. Yes, many motorcycle riders ride with high beams on. We do it because other drivers don't take the time to look twice for motorcycles. Every day motorcycle riders are killed because some other driver DIDN'T SEE THEM! They were in too much of a hurry, or talking on a cell phone, ot texting, or eating, ot painting their finger nails, of changing the radio station, or yelling at their kids, or, well, you get the idea. THese neadless deaths happen because of disregard on the part of manydrivers, and lack of any enforcement by police or concern for anyone else. The lady that murdered two motorcyclists when she rear ended them at a stop, distraced while PAINTING HER FINGERNAILS AND DRIVING was issued a citaition for distraced driving. Two people dead, and she paid a small fine. THis scenario is played out EVERY DAY on our roads. How about the tennager that decided he wasn't going to let the motorcycle rider pass him so he swerved into him and killed him. How about the pickup truck driver that crippled an OFF DUTY CHP OFFICER ON HIS PERSONAL MOTORCYCLE BECAUSE HE DIDN"T LIKE HIM PASSING HIM! Yes, I am a motorcycle rider, yes it is a Harley. I am also a full time RV'er. I find your post VERY offensive. Yes, there are some riders that don't respect others. There are also some other drivers that do the same and worse. Please think before you post disparaging coments like you did. I for one would appreciate it. And PLEASE LOOK TWICE FOR MOTORCYCLES!!!
Goose Creek - I find your comments about motorcycle riders confusing. If I was going to put a number on it I would say 80% of Harley motorcycles do not have mufflers of any sort. I have a partially blocked air passages in my ears which were passed down to me by my father. The sound of unmuffled Harleys hurts my ears. I am not trying to offend anyone here just stating a fact. You comment that most that most Harley riders are against excessive noise flys in the face of my personal experience. You justify the policy of blinding other drivers with constant high beams saying it is a safety. I do not agree with your reasoning. Keeping your normal headlights on will accomplish the same result without blinding and irritating other drivers. My personal experience is that almost no riders of Harley-like heavy motorcycles made by other makers ride without mufflers. For example Honda, BMW, Yamaha, and so on. So the no muffler thing is Harley specific. In my experience. High beams are not Harley specific though, just a general bad idea. Offence was not my intention. My intention was to bring attention to the problems I mentioned. You may be one of the good guys who rides a Harley. There are many. But most of them ride without mufflers and have their high beams on. And it was a drug crazed Harley rider who murdered my oldest daughter 9 years ago. So it is pretty likely I will never be a fan of that motorcycle, activities, and macho mentality that goes along with it. Bob
QUOTE(RFCN2 @ Sep 29 2011, 11:58 PM) [snapback]27751[/snapback] Goose Creek - I find your comments about motorcycle riders confusing. If I was going to put a number on it I would say 80% of Harley motorcycles do not have mufflers of any sort. I have a partially blocked air passages in my ears which were passed down to me by my father. The sound of unmuffled Harleys hurts my ears. I am not trying to offend anyone here just stating a fact. You comment that most that most Harley riders are against excessive noise flys in the face of my personal experience. You justify the policy of blinding other drivers with constant high beams saying it is a safety. I do not agree with your reasoning. Keeping your normal headlights on will accomplish the same result without blinding and irritating other drivers. My personal experience is that almost no riders of Harley-like heavy motorcycles made by other makers ride without mufflers. For example Honda, BMW, Yamaha, and so on. So the no muffler thing is Harley specific. In my experience. High beams are not Harley specific though, just a general bad idea. Offence was not my intention. My intention was to bring attention to the problems I mentioned. You may be one of the good guys who rides a Harley. There are many. But most of them ride without mufflers and have their high beams on. And it was a drug crazed Harley rider who murdered my oldest daughter 9 years ago. So it is pretty likely I will never be a fan of that motorcycle, activities, and macho mentality that goes along with it. Bob Bob, what is confusing about my coments? What is said was based on my personal experience on road, and on internet forums. These are not "guesses" like what your coments are. If I were to guess, I would put a number of around 20% of MOTORCYCLES run without mufflers. A far cry from your guess of 80%. You encounter a few bikes while I encounter thousands. Yes, I go to some of the rallies, like Sturgis, so since I am right in the thick of things I would think my numbers are far more acurate than yours. I also frequent internet forums where these things are discussed, and the majority of riders are against excessively loud pipes, and tell the few that they are doing damage to all bikers. Disagree all you like. We riders are going to do what we have to to stay alive against the overwhelming carlessness of todays drivers. THis problem is another reasn many riders take off the stock mufflers and replace them with louder ones so drivers will hear them and possibly not run them over and kill them. Don't believe this? Even the city of Oakland Calif. did this to their fleet of Harleys as a safety issue. FACT--- NON RIDERS DON'T PAY ATTENETION AND ARE KILLING BIKERS EVERY DAY!! While I am sorry for the lose of you daughter, to now blame all Harley riders for her death is just plain wrong. No doubt the are Harley riders that abuse/use drugs, but they again are in the minority. This is another FACT that I know being in touch with the riders like I am. Some of the most obnoxious sounding bikes I have encounterd in my 40 years of riding are non Harley. It seems they are trying to make up for not riding the most known brand. We dislike them too for all that racket, but again, they are in the minority. Many cities are cracking down on those loud bikes and the majority of bikers endorse this. We are well aware that the actions of a few make all bikers look bad. Bob, once again, you are hardly an expert in these issues since your experience is highly limited. If you were to search out different biker forums and read you would see that your pretty much of base with your "facts". Got some time? Go to a rally. Find a place to sit and watch the bikes roll by and use two counters, one for no mufflers, and another for mufflers. Might be surprised at what those numbers are. Again, my sincere condolences on your lose, but that was one person that happened to ride a Harley and is not how tha vast majority of us are.
RFCN2, You have repeatedly condemned motorcyclists because you Daughter was killed by a "Drug Crazed Harley Rider". I think it is time for a little more clarity. Statistically, more than 75% of murder victims knew and had some kind of relationship with the murderer. Domestic issues are the most common relationship, with drugs the second most common. If your daughter was involved in drugs or in a relationship with a drug addict, the fact that killer road a Harley hardly merits mention. If she was a random victim, that is truely tragic, but the mode of transportation the killer chooses is hardly material to the act. As for random victimization, I don't believe there is any statistically link between random murders and Harley Davidson Motorcycles. Perhaps the two most notorious serial killers in the US were Ted Bundy and Gary Ridgeway. Bundy was infatuated with Volkwagen Beatles and Ridgeway drove a pickup truck. Mass murderers at Virginia Tech, Columbine, That Island in Norway and the tower at the university in Texas, all had one thing in common, they didn't ride Harley Davidson Motorcycles . Are there dangerous gangs that ride Harleys?, Absolutely. But dangerous gangs drive all sorts of vehicles. Asian Gangs prefer souped up Subarus, Nissans and Hondas. The Mafia Drove Cadillacs and Lincoln Town Cars yet we don't consider every person who drives these vehicles dangerous, drug crazed murderers.
Headline from this mornings paper "dozens of hells angels arrested in drug case" "on Thursday 26 people arrested in a rade". That is from just this week. This is supposed to be about rv's in this forum so I am going to say no more about Harley riders except to give my opinion that within the Harley riding community there is a vastly higher percentage of dangerous people than in the general rv community. I have personally riden motorcycles, not barleys. Lots of fun. I used mufflers and did not drive with my headlights on high. Once again sorry for spell check. Hard to change on an iPad.
QUOTE(RFCN2 @ Oct 1 2011, 03:10 PM) [snapback]27776[/snapback] Headline from this mornings paper "dozens of hells angels arrested in drug case" "on Thursday 26 people arrested in a rade". That is from just this week. This is supposed to be about rv's in this forum so I am going to say no more about Harley riders except to give my opinion that within the Harley riding community there is a vastly higher percentage of dangerous people than in the general rv community. I have personally riden motorcycles, not barleys. Lots of fun. I used mufflers and did not drive with my headlights on high. Once again sorry for spell check. Hard to change on an iPad. And once again, if the headline had been "dozens arrested in Mafia drug case" should we conclude that that the Italians are vastly more dangerous than the general RV community? And what correlates Harley Riders with RVers? Saying Harley riders are more dangerous than RVers makes no senses. If headlights on bright and bad mufflers are your crusade, so be it. they are annoying at times, to be sure, but I don't lose much sleep over either. We travel 6 months or so a year in our motorhome and I have never considered loud motorcycles or bright headlights to be anything more than a very occasional annoyance. Maybe I am lucky or you are choosing where you stay poorly.
QUOTE(RFCN2 @ Oct 1 2011, 04:10 PM) [snapback]27776[/snapback] Headline from this mornings paper "dozens of hells angels arrested in drug case" "on Thursday 26 people arrested in a rade". That is from just this week. This is supposed to be about rv's in this forum so I am going to say no more about Harley riders except to give my opinion that within the Harley riding community there is a vastly higher percentage of dangerous people than in the general rv community. I have personally riden motorcycles, not barleys. Lots of fun. I used mufflers and did not drive with my headlights on high. Once again sorry for spell check. Hard to change on an iPad. Bob, what part of 1% don't you understand? Hells Angels are what is know as 1% ers. Meaning that 99% of motorcyclists are not like them. Do a quick search of what the other 99% do. Here, I'll do it for you. THis is the tip of the iceberg. Ride to Victory - Kyle Petty Charity Ride Sep 4, 2009 ... As an extension of Kyle Petty Charity Ride, Inc., this year's Ride to Victory will ... This one-day motorcycle ride gives fans the opportunity to ride ... www.kylepettycharityride.com/green_news.php - Similarto Ride to Victory - Kyle Petty Charity Ride MDA Charity Ride Raises Nearly 1 Milliion - Motorcycle USA May 6, 2011 ... The Muscular Dystrophy Association announced that the 24th annual Harley- Davidson Ride For Life raised $956937 to advance MDA's ... www.motorcycle-usa.com/568/9920/Motorcycle-Article/MDA-Charity-... - Similarto MDA Charity Ride Raises Nearly 1 Milliion - Motorcycle USA Georgia Motorcycle Events and Rallies Official Directory, ... BikerPlaza's Georgia Motorcycle rally and event directory lists many biker events such as a swap meet, motorcycle rides, poker runs, charity and memorial bike ... www.bikerplaza.com/motorcycle-events-ga.html - Similarto Georgia Motorcycle Events and Rallies Official Directory, ... Motorcycle Events in Georgia - Let's Ride 14 hours ago ... Upcoming Motorcycle Events in Georgia. Bike shows, swap meets, poker runs and other motorcycle events. If you're looking for a ride or rally, ... www.lets-ride.com/event/georgia.htm - Similarto Motorcycle Events in Georgia - Let's Ride Harley Charity Ride - Blog - Rally 4 Life Harley Charity Ride. ... Founders · Our Patron · Our Purpose · The Objective · The Charities · Support the Cause · Supporters · In the Media · Speakers Corner ... www.rally4life.org/blog/harley-charity-ride - Similarto Harley Charity Ride - Blog - Rally 4 Life [PDF] IndyWest Harley-Davidson Charity Donation Request ... Jan 26, 2010 ... ____ Charity Ride that will ____ start ____ stop ____ end at IndyWest Harley- Davidson. ____ Fund-raising event (not a charity ride) at ... www.indywesthd.com/images/media/charity.pdf - Similarto IndyWest Harley-Davidson Charity Donation Request ... Golden Spike Harley-Davidson charity ride - Salt Lake City ... Golden Spike Harley-Davidson is partnering with the Utah Chapter of the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation (JDRF) for the 3rd Annual LavaPalooza Char. www.examiner.com/diabetes-parenting-in-salt-lake-city/golden-sp... - Similarto Golden Spike Harley-Davidson charity ride - Salt Lake City ... Motorcycle Events Calendar- LARGEST Motorcycle Rally and ... The LARGEST Motorcycle Rally and Motorcycle Event Calendar is here. ... Breast Cancer Awareness Charity Ride, Colorado Springs, CO, USA. Oct 01 - Oct 01 ... www.lightningcustoms.com/motorcycleevents.html - Similarto Motorcycle Events Calendar- LARGEST Motorcycle Rally and ... Motorcycle Events & Biker Rallies Calendar (Page 1) - CycleFish Results 1 - 100 of 941 ... Find motorcycle events, biker rallies, rides, poker runs, ... www.cyclefish.com/browse_events.php - Similarto Motorcycle Events & Biker Rallies Calendar (Page 1) - CycleFish Charity Motorcycle Ride to Benefit Olivia Taylor - ... 5 days ago ... Seven year old Olivia Taylor of West Haverstraw has a rare genetic disorder known as Aicardi-Goutieres syndrome. nyack.patch.com/articles/charity-motorcycle-ride-to-benefit-oli... - Similarto Charity Motorcycle Ride to Benefit Olivia Taylor - ... Millions and millions of dollars are raised every year by Harley riders. Millions of toys are donated to needy children every Christmas by Harley riders. Hundreds of thousands of Harley riders give their time and money to help others every day. But all you can see is the bad. Bob, the human mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open. You have my pity.
QUOTE(RFCN2 @ Oct 1 2011, 11:21 PM) [snapback]27779[/snapback] This forum is about rv's and I am going to confine myself to that subject. Thank you.
As the original poster on this thread, I want to say that my post was never about the irrevalent fact that the partying group happened to arrive on motorcycles. I am not a biker myself, but I have friends that are. A couple of them even attend the Sturgis rally regularly. I am pretty amazed and disgusted that the thread immediately evolved into a biased discussion of bikers and totally ignored my original complaint about the management of one KOA campground. Let me reiterate. The Devils Tower KOA is only able to stay in business because of its proximity to one of America's natural wonders. The vast majority of visitors to the area have some sort of natural outdoor experience in mind. Adding to the mystique of the tower is the fact that multiple Native American cultures consider it sacred. The National Park Service in recent years has revised the management strategy in order to stress this aspect of Devils Tower history. The Devils Tower KOA is literally right on the park boundary. This business should show a lot more class and respect to the to the National Park that draws in their customers. They should also respect their own customers and they should adhere to their own quiet-hour rules. KOA's inability to say "NO" to an inappropriate disruptive activity is my complaint.
QUOTE(Dave in Colorado @ Oct 12 2011, 11:41 AM) [snapback]27868[/snapback] I am pretty amazed and disgusted that the thread immediately evolved into a biased discussion of bikers and totally ignored my original complaint about the management of one KOA campground. I think you have a very valid point, and I'm glad you brought it to our attention. QUOTE they [the KOA] should adhere to their own quiet-hour rules. KOA's inability to say "NO" to an inappropriate disruptive activity is my complaint. I do not know if this KOA has trouble enforcing their rules all the time, but I want to mention that the owner of this KOA was killed sometime in the last 6 months in a very tragic accident at the park. It sounds like this loud noise event occurred sometime shortly after his death, and perhaps the KOA staff wasn't quiet up to par because of their recent tragedy. However, I totally agree with your view that this KOA (and any other RV park) should respect and honor the cultures, traditions, and customs of the area in which it is located, and it is a shame that for whatever reason that did not happen this time.
Dave in Colorado I am amazed that you are disgusted. I had exactly the same problem with noise in a KOA park in Missoula in the same time period. And the problem was caused by the same group. If you go look at my post in this web site under that campground you will see I was polite and did not point out that the noise from the band caused my wife and I to loose sleep too. The band was right in the middle of approx 300 bikers / motorcyclists tent camping in the KOA. My comments about bikers are not biased. I am only pointing out my experiences. No doubt most motor cyclists are fine people. But in the area we live plenty are not. And I have a particular sensitivity to the noise from illegal unmuffled Harley's. No one seems to care about that. The noise hurts my ears. What is biased about that comment? High beams. The rules of the road are you are free to use high beams until you encounter oncoming traffic. Then you dip your lights so as not to blind the oncoming vehicles. Many motorcyclists use high beams in this area and virtually none dip the beams to regular when faced with oncoming traffic. This activity is unsafe and discourteous. Plus it is against the law. What is biased about that statement? Keep in mind that this is a discussion forum where people brought to this site by interest in RVing can share their views. I do understand that it must be frustrating to regular law abiding people who ride motorcycles that there is a lot of negative feelings from a minority of outlaw gangs like the Hells angels. I have no complete solution for that, but a place to start would be to get mufflers and stop glaring your high beams at oncoming traffic. As far as the KOA allowing bands. Just another reason why I am tending to stay away from KOA's.
