"guns Don't Kill People....people Do."

First of all, I am about as conservative as you can get, and I don't like government or government intervention. Secondly, I fully expect to receive a ton of opposition to my position, some hate mail, and maybe even a threat or two. But I feel I must speak.

My son is a professor at Virginia Tech and he called me today to discuss the shootings (as of now 32 dead) on the campus at Virginia Tech this morning. Almost all the deaths occurred in the building next to his office.

It is inconceivable to me how anybody can still take the position that the ease of getting guns in this country is right. Some nut goes out and, according to current news reports, acquires not one but two 9mm handguns and then wipes out over two dozen people. If we had responsible gun laws in this country, this would not have happened. It is difficult to kill 32 people with a knive, or a baseball bat, or whatever.

It is time, in my humble opinion, that we stop this madness and make it damned difficult for anybody other than cops and soldiers to get handguns. What will it take to wake up this country to the utter stupidity of our current laws?

I am leaving on Friday of this week for a couple of weeks in New Zealand, a country where even the cops don't carry guns (except for a special squad), and where handgun deaths are virtually unheard of. You simply cannot find a handgun in New Zealand. Its time we consider something like this in this country.

Okay. Fire away. It's your turn.

 

I agree with your post. We found your post and them put CNN on to see more information. Sad to see that 33 people were killed due to a nut with a gun. No, we do not need hand guns in USA. At no time in our life do we carry a hand gun. No one needs one! Now the people in Washinton will spent years talked about this shooting and that will be the end of it. :angry:

 

This isn't New Zealand. It's a highly "diversified" country of over 300 million people - nutjobs and all. It's a proven fact that gun laws, concealed carry, etc. actually reduce crime in areas where they're VOTED in. Again - VOTED (a la democracy, USA, apple pie, and Old Glory). Further, it's unlikely the nut who shot-up Va Tech had a crime record. If he hadn't used a gun, he'd used an IED or something.

Remember your post the next time you're at a remote State campground in November, the only camper and possible the only person around for miles and you get a knock at the door in the middle of the night. Read TrailerLife, RV View, etc. - this stuff happens all the time (state campgrounds are magnets for transient rif raf).

You have a moral obligation to protect your wife and kids. Unless you want to knife, ballbat, or "whatever" the intruder.

Now - let's get this type of thread out of "RV Park Reviews" and get back to stuff like "Have you ever had this happen at the dump station?" type of post.

 

QUOTE(Beastdriver @ Apr 16 2007, 04:41 PM) [snapback]6824[/snapback]

First of all, I am about as conservative as you can get, and I don't like government or government intervention. Secondly, I fully expect to receive a ton of opposition to my position, some hate mail, and maybe even a threat or two. But I feel I must speak.

My son is a professor at Virginia Tech and he called me today to discuss the shootings (as of now 32 dead) on the campus at Virginia Tech this morning. Almost all the deaths occurred in the building next to his office.

It is inconceivable to me how anybody can still take the position that the ease of getting guns in this country is right. Some nut goes out and, according to current news reports, acquires not one but two 9mm handguns and then wipes out over two dozen people. If we had responsible gun laws in this country, this would not have happened. It is difficult to kill 32 people with a knive, or a baseball bat, or whatever.

It is time, in my humble opinion, that we stop this madness and make it damned difficult for anybody other than cops and soldiers to get handguns. What will it take to wake up this country to the utter stupidity of our current laws?

I am leaving on Friday of this week for a couple of weeks in New Zealand, a country where even the cops don't carry guns (except for a special squad), and where handgun deaths are virtually unheard of. You simply cannot find a handgun in New Zealand. Its time we consider something like this in this country.

Okay. Fire away. It's your turn.


With all do respect....
When will the citizenry of our country get it through their heads that only law abiding folk pay any attention to laws controlling guns. Demented people will find what evermeans necessary to complete their dastardly deeds.

Enough said

gsbogart

 

First off I would like to offer my deepest sympathies and prayers to the victims of this horrible tragedy. The only thing sadder is the fact that there are people out there that will now use such an event to push their own political agenda. The dust hasn't even settled and people will already be on their soap boxes. Then they take partial and incomplete news stories and run away with their ideas.

QUOTE
It is inconceivable to me how anybody can still take the position that the ease of getting guns in this country is right. Some nut goes out and, according to current news reports, acquires not one but two 9mm handguns and then wipes out over two dozen people. If we had responsible gun laws in this country, this would not have happened.



They haven't even released the identity of the killer yet. How did he acquire the handguns? Was it done legally or illegally? Did he have a criminal record? Has he had a history of mental problems? Did he show any signs of mental problems before this incident? Did people notice some abhorrent behavior before hand and do nothing about it? Can you answer any of these questions yet? We do have responsible gun laws in this country but how can you question them in this case without having all of the facts? For all we know he could have been a model citizen up to this point and obtained the guns legally and just snapped. He also could have been a felon with a record as long as the day and got the guns illegally. How can you be certain that if we had more gun laws that this would have been stopped? It is a sad fact that there are evil people in the world. It is also a sad fact that evil people will not respect the laws in the first place. An evil person will always find a way to do evil. Could more laws have prevented this? Very doubtful. I could just as easily say "well if just one person had a concealed carry permit and was carrying a gun this could have been prevented because they could have shot the killer." Would this be possible? I would give it a better chance than more laws preventing it.

In the end what we need to do is stop demonizing the tool and find the cause of the problem. We need to stop trying to treat the symptoms and attack the disease itself. What is the disease? In my opinion it lies in the moral degradation of our country. It lies in the fact that people will tend to look to blame others rather than accept responsibility for their own actions. It lies in the fact that people are willing to give up their freedoms for a false sense of security instead of fighting to correct the issue responsibly. It lies in the fact that as a whole we are becoming a self-absorbed nation with little regard for the rights and freedoms of others. This has become very evident in the types of laws that are being passed recently. How do we fix it? That is something the we as a people have to come together and decide. We eventually just have to stand up and say, "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!" Until this happens I do not see things getting any better any time soon.

 

Gomer: You most certainly have an appropriate name.

GSBogart: It's due respect, not "do respect" but, what can I say?

 

I don't think that this is the proper forum for this subject. Next thing we will be tell each other how to vote.

 

QUOTE(Beastdriver @ Apr 16 2007, 11:13 PM) [snapback]6834[/snapback]

Gomer: You most certainly have an appropriate name.

GSBogart: It's due respect, not "do respect" but, what can I say?


Beastdriver
Thank you for the english verbatum lesson.....

 

Any time you don't agree with the Beast Driver, you can expect his sarcasm. May be he will stay in New Zealand.

 

As a parent, I cannot even imagine the desparation and agony that must have been experienced by those who have children at VA Tech, while they were waiting to hear from their child. My heart breaks for those who got the news today that they would never be able to talk to or hug their child again. I hope you will all keep them in your prayers. I do agree that gun laws will not deter criminals. The majority of weapons used in violent crimes are not registered to the assailant, as they did not acquire them thru legal channels. I do own a handgun and have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. A background check was required to purchase the firearm and a safety class, shooting accuracy test and another extensive background check by the C.B.I had to be completed to obtain the permit. I have never had to pull the weapon on anyone, and it is certainly my hope and prayer that I never will, but if the lives of myself or my family were being threatened by some thug, I would know how to handle the gun. As COWolfPack stated, we do not yet know what means the shooter used to obtain his guns. Fox News had a former FBI profiler on this afternoon and he said he expects that we will discover that the assailant has had run-ins with the law before and quite possibly has served prison time. He also thinks he more than likely has been diagnosed with mental instablities (well that is a no-brainer, a person would have to be unbalanced to have no regard for human life!!!). While this is just his impression, it may or may not be true - but the gunman was obviously determined to wreak destruction and death on innocent people today, and I think he would have carried out his plans whether he legally purchased his guns or not - he would have found a way. I cannot help but have sympathy for his parents also. Not only have they lost their child, but must live with the aftermath of what their son did. I know this can be an explosive subject and I think we must all just agree to disagree and respect each others opinions. I do have the right to bear arms and I do not abuse that right and I treat it with the responsibilty it requires. I am not going to change my mind nor am I going to try and change any of yours, so let's just all try to get along...

 

Cheryl: You make some good points. I don't agree with you, but your explanation of your position is good.

CoWolfPack: Likewise, some good points. But can we come up with some way to keep the weapons from the crazies while we are psychoanalyzing them?

Bogart: You are welcome. By the way, I'm sure you mean verbatim instead of verbatum, but what can I say?

Pig Pen: So I'm sarcastic in your opinion? Is this the same Pig Pen who on Februarty 27th said about this site: I'm not sure I would call it a club, but there are times that some try to intimidate others on (this site.) And are you the same one who, on March 14, in response to one members' complaints about people who don't pick up dog poop, responded that wildlife poop is everywhere and no one has a problem with that..." And is the same person who, on February 27, accused a member of being "paranoid" because she was concerned about a valid issue? Or the same Pig Pen who told another member who responded that his comments on an issue were just his opinion and he was entitled to it by saying "You are absolutely right. You are entitled to your opinion. When you keep it to yourself. Or the same guy, who, when a member disagreed with him, responded by saying, "If you are not interested, why post (on this site)?

Point is, we all tend to be sarcastic from time to time, including you. So lighten up. Ooops. I just noticed by my "P" and "B" keys were screwed up. Pardon me, Big Ben.

 

Ok, first of all I am very sad about the events at VT. I had a daughter who attended and graduated a couple years ago as did her husband and they were engineers. It is a sd turn of events. I will also say that the gun control issue is one where people will not agree on them but if you ever needed one you will need it right then not later. The police do not protect they clean up afterwards and can not be with you at all times. I was a cop and know it could take me 30 mins to get across the county to the call and I was the only one and I had no backup then either and knew I would have to handle it. I also know that handguns are a compromise and I would rather a shotgun or a rifle but you can not carry one all the time as you can a hand gun.

If you are in a secluded campground in the woods late at night and the sheriff is on the other side of the county you may be on your own for a while. You have to protect yourself and your family. Cities have their own issues too but that is more complex but you can have an issue and it will be over well before any help can get to you. You have to decide and take responsibility for your own actions and remember it is a responsibility.

Also the Washington Post did a study of Montgomery and Fairfax Counties a few years after the laws changed and shall issue permits were issued. The fact that the demographics were similar in all respects but the difference in crime rates were asounding. The only difference was that criminals knew that in VA they ran a better chance of running into a gun owner who will kill you while the police would not do so. Interesting article and they did not like it and stated that there had to be other reasons. There have also been academic studies backing this up too.

I had to have my handgun out while sitting in the motorhome at a rest stop in the middle of the day and I was glad I had my pistol. I was not doing anything other than eating lunch in the middle of the day.

I willo respect those who do not want to carry or wwn one but the country was founded and birthed by men who brought their own guns. They still protect us today. I would hate to say no guns then the mob of kids with knives will come and bother you and you will be using hand to hand combat to deter it and then we willl ban the knives.... well it is personal responsibility. I will not go so far as to say that they should allow guns on school grounds but VA Tech was a corp school and still has the Corp there. The kids deserve a safe place to learn and study but they will find out that the world is not a safe place...

 

In reading the posted opinions/experiences of others, hand gun control will be an issue every time someone, without concern for others, uses a hand gun to settle an issue. We live in a sick world, at a sad time. Personally, I find myself torn between those who call for hand guns to be banned and those who oppose any control of hand guns. I can see the pros and cons of both sides and agree with the each side. Their points are very powerful, but I do not see an answer that will accommodate both sides.

Let us not forget those who have lost their lives, or those who were wounded. Our thoughts and prayers are needed as a comfort to those involved families, in their time of need. They need our compassion.

 

It's always a shame when something like this happens how all the arm chair quarterbacks come out. There are some good points that have been made and some that just don't make much sense. Do you really think tougher gun controll would have made a difference, lets say make them wait 60 days before getting it. He would just have bought it sooner or waited longer to do it. He was going to do this no matter what, guns, explosives tied to his waiste, whatever. Now people will start looking for someone to blame, the college didn't do something righ, the teachers should have noticed this and had him locked up. Beastdriver face it, this is not a perfect world, there are crazy people everywhere and no amount of goverment control, big brother watching over your shoulder is going to keep you safer. Raise your children right and just hope for the best. Love your family and friends like there is no tomorrow everyday.

Just my opinion

 

John S., Rodman, and Butch:

All of your responses were very thoughful and thought-provoking ones and, I must admit, have some validity. I, too, have been in situations where I wished I had a gun (one time in a shopping center parking lot in the motorhome when a bunch of trash came up in an old clunker, saw the motorhome, and asked us to give them some money When I refused, they hung around and kept looking at us until we drove away.) But I am still opposed to the easy acquisition of hand guns. We may be reaching a point where we have to give up a cherished freedom (the right to bear arms), in order to preserve and protect other freedoms (the right to be safe and not be killed in your own home or at your school.) I know that, everytime I go to the airport to get on a plane, I get so angry at all the crap, searches, questions, restrictions, etc., that we now have. But I understand, and accept, this loss of freedom as the price of freedom. It is truly a tough question.

 

Is it almost Friday???

I doubt that no matter what opinion is posted here that it will change anyone's mind one way or the other so may we get back to getting along with each other.....

 

I am indeed sorry about the VA Tech incident and my heart goes out to the families. Still, I maintain my right to bear arms. Remember, when guns are outlawed - only outlaws will have guns. There is a lot of truth to that statement. The bad guys are going to get the guns no matter what. I like having the right to have my guns to protect myself and family from those bad guys! I am a sworn public safety officer in the fire division. I believe in citizens having the right to own their guns. I am 100 percent against gun control.

 

Most every university bans guns on campus, maybe, if that was not true, one gunman would not be able to cause so many deaths. Criminals seek locations where victims are defenseless. If the instructors and/or students were allowed handguns, the death toll would have been a lot smaller. I have been in a "mad" gunman situation and it was a armed citizen that killed the attacker.

 

Beastdriver> "Fire away" ?? Considering the topic, perhaps not the best choice of words.

I sat here for several minutes considering whether I wanted to comment considering that, as one other mentioned, it probably isn't the right topic for this website. The webmaster is probably pulling his hair out.

1- Why don't the hundreds of positive stories about how guns used in self defense have actually saved someone's life make the news? Media bias, of course.

2. If the VT administration had allowed previous student body requests to carry concealed, perhaps we wouldn't be discussing this issue. VA has a CC law.

3- Law enforcement professionals can't be everywhere all of the time. In all likelihood they cannot prevent an attack on you, regardless of the weapon used. They will show up to investigate it, tho.

4- You are absolutely correct. Let's enforce the gun laws we already have.

5- If you visit the state of Texas, be glad that many of us are licensed CCP holders. It is a hugh crime deterrent. Don't take my word for it, ask a criminal.


Rick
"I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6"

 

QUOTE(Big Ben @ Apr 17 2007, 12:17 AM) [snapback]6837[/snapback]

Any time you don't agree with the Beast Driver, you can expect his sarcasm. May be he will stay in New Zealand.



Well you know what they say...."If you can't dazzle them with your footwork, confuse them with your jitterjive". "what can I say"