B) Man, you guys are tough. But fair! From my standpoint, participation in any of these programs is all about marketing my park. That means getting my brand listed in as many locations as possible. If someone visits my park only because they found us in the Passport America directory, that is new business, business I may not have otherwise had. And when they leave happy, they are rolling word of mouth advertsers, the best advertising we get. I don't limit the length of Passport stays because my monthly rate is actually cheaper by the day than the Passport rate, and many of my Passport people convert to monthly after they arrive. We only have monthly rates and Passport rates in our off-season (Labor Day to Memorial Day), so it doesn't hurt our bottom line during our busy summer season. My club affiliations, for me, are simply a means of attracting people to my park. After that, we must satisfy them, and that has nothing to do with the club affiliatios. That is completely up to our staff and how we treat people after they are here, and I am very proud of our staff in that regard. Happy campers will tell several others about us; unhappy campers will tell dozens. I enjoy chatting with all of you. Just enjoy camping. I do, and if I don't like a park, I don't return. Thanks, Doug B)
I don't mean to be insulting, but I think your response was niggardly and indicates that you could be a cheap cg owner. If you are a businessman I can't imagine how you would stay in business. Fortunately the vast number of cg owners are polite and not insulting. These people know that negotiations are part of the normal course of doing business. I see absolutely no problem with asking for a better rate. If the answer is no then thats fine. If one of my employees ever turned away business because someone requested a better price we would have to revisit people skills training.
Charliewax: I could not disagree with you more. I think Parkview is a very astute businessman who is attempting to generate traffic at his park and believes he can sell visitors on repeat reservations based on superior service and excellent lodging. By the way, welcome to the site!
Charliewax1 To whom were you replying? I've been following this thread, and really don't think the responce is to something parkview said. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Just trying to follow the flow. Fred
QUOTE(Parkview @ Mar 15 2008, 06:20 PM) [snapback]10750[/snapback] B) Man, you guys are tough. But fair! From my standpoint, participation in any of these programs is all about marketing my park. That means getting my brand listed in as many locations as possible. If someone visits my park only because they found us in the Passport America directory, that is new business, business I may not have otherwise had. And when they leave happy, they are rolling word of mouth advertsers, the best advertising we get. I don't limit the length of Passport stays because my monthly rate is actually cheaper by the day than the Passport rate, and many of my Passport people convert to monthly after they arrive. We only have monthly rates and Passport rates in our off-season (Labor Day to Memorial Day), so it doesn't hurt our bottom line during our busy summer season. My club affiliations, for me, are simply a means of attracting people to my park. After that, we must satisfy them, and that has nothing to do with the club affiliatios. That is completely up to our staff and how we treat people after they are here, and I am very proud of our staff in that regard. Happy campers will tell several others about us; unhappy campers will tell dozens. I enjoy chatting with all of you. Just enjoy camping. I do, and if I don't like a park, I don't return. Thanks, Doug B) I'm very sorry but I can not set quietly on the sidelines, but would like to voice my opinion in the following statement. Personally when I read Parkview's postings, most are written in a form that informs the public as to the amenities, activities, and business practices used by his campground. Some readers praise him in one form or another, but I find his responses as an inexpensive, to him, way to advertise his business. I was under the impression that advertising ones business venture(s) on this forum was not allowed. Over the time I have observed the forum, I have seen others, who have done the same, advertising, and they were stricken and removed. I don't know if that is parkview's intention, but personally find parkview a shrewd business person, who uses every advantage to further his bottom line. Every business has to make some sort of profit or they are not in business for long. I just question his actions, as it surely looks like advertising, as he speaks of the campground. I definitely do know that there are those who will disagree with me, but you too, are entitled to your opinion. Please do not look at this statement as anything other than an observation as it pertains to his postings over time.
I have to admit, I didn't read the entire thread. I read it at first, then it lost my interest. But since this thread just won't quit, I decided to chime in my opinion. Based on what I have seen (and again, I admit I didn't follow the whole thread....), I don't think Parkview was flagrant in (his? her?) posts. RV park owners aren't allowed to post a review. But to my knowlege, there is nothing to prevent them from participating in the forum, as long as they aren't being "in our faces" with advertising. From the posts I have seen from Parkview, Parkview only responds to something that is questioned, and presents an answer from (his? her?) point of view as a park owner/manager. I haven't seen Parkview do a "check me out, I'm great" kind of post. Just my opinion, no intention of flaming anyone. JJ
I didn't think parkview was doing anything except responding other posts and explaining about all the different rates and discounts. I think his owner's point of view has been very informative and helpful. Many of us on this forum (me included) have at one time or another criticized a park (or parks in general) about some of their practices. Parkview has helped explain why things are sometimes done the way they are. It doesn't mean we have to agree with the practice, but it has helped me to at least see the other side.
I have to agree with DXS on this one. Parkview has been very above board and, in my opinion, not overly sales oriented in his (or her) responses. I see nothing wrong with them.
We are on an extended trip out West (from Florida) and have run into quite a few people in the Passport America 50% discount book who say they don’t do it anymore. We ask for the rate anyway as we have the latest book and not one has agreed to honor it. I might add that we have declined to stay there and on some occasions, driven by there to see the parks nearly empty. To me this is sneaky and unethical. As in any other business, there are going to be good and bad operators. This type of review board will help to eliminate the bad one. I think from reading his post that Parkview is certainly on of the good ones for sure.
B) I'm sorry if I have ever offended or disturbed anyone on this site. I simply try to add informed commentary on topics that interest me or that I may feel have been misrepresented or misunderstood. I have enjoyed what I consider pleasant conversation with many of you. As an RVer since 1976 and an RV Park operator since 2001, I feel that that I may have some experience and knowledge to share from a different perspective than some of you. I have steadfastly tried to avoid the appearance of advertising my park on this site. In all of my posts, I have avoided even mentioning the name of my park except on 2 occasions (I think) when answering specific requests to do so. I hope all of you had a great Easter and will enjoy the roads ahead of you. Thanks to those who understand.
Parkview, You can please some of the people some of the time. You are the injured party in this exchange. The person making the original statement should apologize to you, not the other way around imho.
QUOTE(Butch @ Mar 25 2008, 06:28 AM) [snapback]10893[/snapback] I'm very sorry but I can not set quietly on the sidelines, but would like to voice my opinion in the following statement. Personally when I read Parkview's postings, most are written in a form that informs the public as to the amenities, activities, and business practices used by his campground. Some readers praise him in one form or another, but I find his responses as an inexpensive, to him, way to advertise his business. I was under the impression that advertising ones business venture(s) on this forum was not allowed. Over the time I have observed the forum, I have seen others, who have done the same, advertising, and they were stricken and removed. I don't know if that is parkview's intention, but personally find parkview a shrewd business person, who uses every advantage to further his bottom line. Every business has to make some sort of profit or they are not in business for long. I just question his actions, as it surely looks like advertising, as he speaks of the campground. I definitely do know that there are those who will disagree with me, but you too, are entitled to your opinion. Please do not look at this statement as anything other than an observation as it pertains to his postings over time. Well I have to admit if Parkview is doing what you say he is then he certainly is one extremely poor and broke cg owner because I have seen better advertising from kids selling lemonade on the side of the road. All I see is someone giving their personal and professional opinions, just like the rest of us are. I think if there was a problem that the WebMaster would take care of it. ParkView, don't apologize for giving your opinion. As always, just my opinion,
What some of y'all seem to be missing is... if the park does not want to give or does not have undisclosed discounts... they will not give them. No one is holding a gun to their heads. Some of you may notice that hotel rates seem to be adjustable at will also. I don't see this as being any different. If you ask for a discount and there is none... thats pretty much the end of it isn't it. No reason to get all angry about it.
I recently read that on an average airline flight of 275 folks, there may be as many as 80 different rate varying wildly.
I been lurking for some time in this fourms reading the many postings and reviews. I am personally looking to purchase a campground and want to see what people want. This subject of asking for a discount that is not a listed or posted option is not right. A business set the rates at a level so they can cover costs and hopfully make money. A campground offers membership discounts because the assioation will do advertising for them its a pay per use advertising method. To walk in off the street and ask(demand) a discount is not right. If you were a regular customer then yes but not first time, the odds of you comming back are low as you are a new customer and when its travel dollars it very well could be the last time you ever see that customer again. I have read over and over how campers want paved roads, lush grass, marble counter tops in the bathrooms etc et but OH no I don't want to pay more then $10 a week. Everything cost money or build mantain upgrade. If the regular rate is $40 for a WSE site and you want a discount will you give up the Septic?? IN exchange for a disount? Be made to bring your own toilet paper to the public bathroom? I see many complaints about the size of lots once again people forget that many campgrounds were build and designed long before 40 foot trailers and quad slides. To change lot sizes in a existing campground is expensive and loss of income where 3 trailers could park with larger lots only 2 can park? Will you pay more for super lot 30 feet wide and 70 feet long? Yes some campgrounds require updating and repairs, but many campers do not realize how much work is required to maitain a business that will cover several acres of land. You dont see many compground operators driving around in $100,000 sports cars. Many cmapground have 6 months to make their money and its seven days a week from early morning to late at night. How many Rv;s work 12 hr days 7 days a week for 6 months solid in the customer service business? So next time you ask for the special discount and when there is no TP in the bathroom you can take the $20 you saved and wipe. Rant over
After having spent over 10 years in the lodging business working 24/7/365, I can see that you need to give this some additional thought. You might need to think it through. For example, the value (not price) of a site varies drastically through out the year, the season, and the day. You have to understand the value of your product. A site might have a regular rate, but it does not have a regular value. If you are half full and somebody drives up at 7:30 PM and wants to rent a site for say 2/3's of the going rate. You have several choices. You can say no and get nothing as the site will be empty that night and the money can never be recouped, or you can say yes and get some money that will help defray the fixed cost of the park. Many successful campground owners swear by the 50% discount clubs as they defray their fixed costs. If there is a NASCAR race or a Magnolia Festival in the next town, a smart lodging professional realizes that the value of his product is higher and he charges more. Conversely if it is a rainy Wednesday in the shoulder season, he realizes that the value of his product is less and he charges less. I think you will find that the average RV’er worked hard through out their career and are basically extremely nice folks. Asking for a discount isn’t an insult, but a necessary thing for many of us. Sites like this also inform prospective campers of your procedures and your cordiality.
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ Aug 15 2010, 09:39 PM) [snapback]23555[/snapback] After having spent over 10 years in the lodging business working 24/7/365, I can see that you need to give this some additional thought. You might need to think it through. For example, the value (not price) of a site varies drastically through out the year, the season, and the day. You have to understand the value of your product. A site might have a regular rate, but it does not have a regular value. If you are half full and somebody drives up at 7:30 PM and wants to rent a site for say 2/3's of the going rate. You have several choices. You can say no and get nothing as the site will be empty that night and the money can never be recouped, or you can say yes and get some money that will help defray the fixed cost of the park. Many successful campground owners swear by the 50% discount clubs as they defray their fixed costs. If there is a NASCAR race or a Magnolia Festival in the next town, a smart lodging professional realizes that the value of his product is higher and he charges more. Conversely if it is a rainy Wednesday in the shoulder season, he realizes that the value of his product is less and he charges less. I think you will find that the average RV’er worked hard through out their career and are basically extremely nice folks. Asking for a discount isn’t an insult, but a necessary thing for many of us. Sites like this also inform prospective campers of your procedures and your cordiality. So what if the camper is there on a NASCAR weekend but not going to NASCAR do you still double charge that camper? Same logic if the weather is bad mid july your going to reduce your rate becuase Mother nature was not in a camper friendly mood? Charge extra if the weather is Great? If its late season and the weather is better then average will you charge more? How about the campgrounds that are in areas that do not attact 100,000 people for a weekend event? I'd like to see your pricing chart for all the variables Base rate $10 +$1 for good weather +$1 if there is entertainment going on outside of my campgrounds. -$1 for bad weather +$1 if I dont think your pretty -$1 if you look down on your luck +$1 if any combination of the over 3 are positive things over and above any charges +$5 for for bill calculation (CGA;s charge lots) Prices subject to change at the will of the owner or 16 yo summer student who failed math...... -
QUOTE(billyb_1969 @ Aug 15 2010, 11:05 PM) [snapback]23556[/snapback] So what if the camper is there on a NASCAR weekend but not going to NASCAR do you still double charge that camper? Same logic if the weather is bad mid july your going to reduce your rate becuase Mother nature was not in a camper friendly mood? Charge extra if the weather is Great? If its late season and the weather is better then average will you charge more? How about the campgrounds that are in areas that do not attact 100,000 people for a weekend event? I'd like to see your pricing chart for all the variables Base rate $10 +$1 for good weather +$1 if there is entertainment going on outside of my campgrounds. -$1 for bad weather +$1 if I dont think your pretty -$1 if you look down on your luck +$1 if any combination of the over 3 are positive things over and above any charges +$5 for for bill calculation (CGA;s charge lots) Prices subject to change at the will of the owner or 16 yo summer student who failed math...... - Actually, that's about how it works in practice, although the base point is generally more than 10. I think most people don't appreciate how pricing works. Prices are not based solely on costs, nor should they be. Costs set a floor, but even that is fuzzy because the costs applicable to a particular transaction vary. The purpose of being in business is to maximize profit, which is total revenue less total costs over the long pull. The most successful businesses are those which get the greatest spread. Those that don't get a large enough spread just get by, or fail. If you admire successful businesses, remember they are the guys who get the most for giving the least. It's not a morality play out there. Pricing is based on the value of the item or service to the customer. You can't charge more than the value to the customer, because he will walk. But you try to get as much as you can. If you are running a business, let's say an RV park, and you have a potential customer standing in front of you who says the most he will pay is X (and in your judgement he is telling the truth), and the true extra cost to you of providing that thing is less than X, then you will make money (increase revenue and profit) by selling it to him for X even if you "normally" sell it to others for more, and need to average more to cover all your long run costs. But there's an important proviso--you have to keep the "price sensitive" group you do this for limited--if everybody finds out about it, you'll have to do it for everybody and then it becomes a loser for you. Keeping the price sensitive group separate from the general customer base is what economists call "market segmentation." A common way to segment your market is to offer discounts to defined groups that have some mechanism of exclusivity, such as members of ________, the elderly., those who stay longer, etc., with the idea that the extra business you get will more than offset the discount. In short, you will maximize your revenue and thus profit by changing every customer what he is willing to pay. But that varies with an infinity of factors. As a practical matter, it means you set a good list price that you are comfortable with and always try to get it, but cut it in specific circumstances when you judge you have to do it to get the business, it will increase your profits, AND it won't come back to haunt you. Accurately judging when that is is one thing that separates good businessmen from not-so-good businessmen.
I believe you missed my point. The key to the whole thing is recognizing the concept of value. How much is that site worth a a given time? That decision can best be made real time. In the NASCAR example, the value of the site goes way up when everything in the area is going to be packed. It doesn’t make any difference to the value of the site if the camper is going to the race or not. He is taking up a site that has a much greater value and he must be willing to pay for it. Whether he goes or not is immaterial….The value of the site has gone up because others would be willing to pay the higher price. You have a normal price (hotels call this the rack rate) and you can then go up or down based on value. If Joe Consumer calls and says, I’d like to have a site for Sat. the 16th of May and I see you price in Woodalls is $40. You say, Well Joe, that is the weekend of the big NASCAR race and our price is $70 and we have a 2 night minimum. Will that work for you?” If not, then ask him to keep you in mind if you can’t find another spot or come back in the summer when we reduce our rates. Selling him the site at half the price somebody else is willing to pay is a huge mistake. There is nothing wrong with this and campers understand this and expect it. This is why there are more campers at Wal-Mart on a holiday weekend. You also have to have a good handle on what your drop dead variable costs are on a site you rent. This would include things like electric, water, sewage, wear and tear. This will also vary by season due to AC and ECT. Your fixed costs like mortgage, labor, maintain, TV, property taxes must be known also, If your variable cost are say $10 and your normal rack rate is $35, then anything you get over the variable cost is gravy and can be applied to lower fixed costs averages. If you rent that extra site, your mortgage, taxes, ETC are not going to go up. This is a complicated business, but realizing your value and keeping the folks happy is important.
