"guns Don't Kill People....people Do."

Hi,

In Canada carrying a hand gun is not really an option. Here are the results of this law:

http://www.statcan.ca/english/ads/82-003-XPE/pdf/16-4-04.pdf

For those of you who do not wish to read the document, death from firearm related injury is 0.5 per 100,000 people in Canada--and in USA 3.8 per 100,000 people.

Your "right to bear arms" comes at a very high price.

 

QUOTE
It is inconceivable to me how anybody can still take the position that the ease of getting guns in this country is right.


I just don't get the harm or bother imposed on those who qualify in tightening up this process.

jmo

 

I know that this is an emotional discussion but if youtake the emotion out of it you will that John Longenecker is right in this artile he published after the shootings. I have excerpted part of it here. It is an interesting take on the bill of rights. It is not that we have to have the rights it is that the government may not take them away from us. THat is the problem with the laws being passed, everyone wants to take the rights away and that is what the bill of rights prohibt. There was a huge decison in the Parker Case last week in the US Court for DC on DC restriction on Handuns and it will be have much bigger reprecussion than many will think.

Here is an except on this.

1. The second amendment was not written either as a collective nor individual right because it wasn’t written for citizens. It was written for Government as the entire Document is written to define our rights and to put limits on government. Government cannot grant rights, and itself has no rights. Only citizens have rights and those rights trump the interests of agencies just as citizen rights trump the interests of the people. 2A puts limits on government and puts no limits on citizens on this question and for the reason that the citizen is the ultimate legislature and supreme authority. That is the original intent because abuse of due process was the basis of the War for Independence.

Because 2A was not written for you and me but written for Government, it’s just stupid to think that Government (including courts, appointed officials and law enforcement) gets a say-so or even an opinion in protecting its own interests over that of citizens, interests of officials which conflict with the authority of the citizen. Which prevails? Citizen rights and authority prevails.

2. The Founders did not care which weapons they did or did not foresee in centuries ahead because they didn’t view weapons as the danger to the nation. The Founders viewed takings as a danger, and how, brother. They knew all about takings. 2A was not written about weapons they could or could not foresee: it was written because the Founders foresaw abuses of due process in any time, any era, and even any administration or office. "Shall not be infringed" bars applying due process to takings of the lethal force which backs citizen authority. No state is immune to this creeping abuse of process in powers not granted, not even the United States, and the Founders knew it only too well. It was not guns, but abuse of due process the Founders foresaw in writing the second amendment.

So, the Founders gave the power of ultimate authority not to officials, but to the armed citizen, and that precludes any gun control, inclduing regulation. Officials and 2008 candidates, by dint of their oath, may not quarrel with this, and may not even legally entertain any anti-gun sway of activists any more than they may entertain lobbying for the ownership of one person by another in this country. Not even a little.

Yes, some parts of the Constitution are absolute: the law against involuntary servitude and the law against infringing on the lethal force which backs citizen authority.

The language of the second amendment was written to avoid even this debate, for there is no debate as to who runs this country – we do – and no debate as to how we back our authority.

Any idea of accepting SCOTUS decisions on this question is a mistake by affirming one of the greatest legal errors in this nation’s development, and that would be the people’s idea that a court decides what the Founders have already decided: citizen authority is backed by force, and 2A was not about guns, it was about takings of guns. Not written for us, but for government, and that would have to include the Supremes.

The matter must be resolved by Congress in the repeal of all gun laws. All guns laws are illegal because they chip away at the legal and lethal force which backs the authority of the citizen over the executive. Gun laws are illegal because the amendment was not written for the citizen, it was written for the very officials who claim authority to decide the issue. Cangress can dump it all, and I'll hold your coat.

So-called sensible regulation, types of weapon or ammunition, where it may be carried or not, or even a debate on collective or individual right are each a non-issue when such abuse of due process against citizen authority is what the Founders anticipated in writing the second amendment to the Constitution of The United States.

Any further delay on the affirmation of this truth would be positive proof that our greatest fears have come true.

Now is the time to repeal all guns laws.

 

Hi,

Now is the time for the USA to modify the second amendment. Hand guns are good for just two things--target practice and killing people.

QUOTE(John S. @ May 19 2007, 12:30 PM) [snapback]7081[/snapback]


Now is the time to repeal all guns laws.

 

QUOTE(pianotuna @ May 19 2007, 12:11 PM) [snapback]7082[/snapback]

Hi,

Now is the time for the USA to modify the second amendment. Hand guns are good for just two things--target practice and killing people.

QUOTE(John S. @ May 19 2007, 12:30 PM) [snapback]7081[/snapback]


Now is the time to repeal all guns laws.





Not necessarily true. There are those that chose to hunt with handguns. They do a marvelous job of protecting a lot of us from bad guys and other creepy crawly things.

 

Ben: While I am sure there are some things that people "hunt" with handguns (other than other people), I can't recall any of them? What exactly do people hunt with handguns?

 

I lived in Ohio for a number of years and a deer hunter there has a choice of muzzle loader, a shotgun with slugs or a hand gun .357 and over. Many of us chose a hand gun, myself included.
Page through a hand gun magazine and you will find several hand guns in very large calibers that are made with the idea of hunting large game. Thompson Center makes a single shot hand gun that is made in many rifle calibers that has taken every species of land animals.
Like many things, once you are familar with it, you may see it in a differant light.

 

QUOTE(Beastdriver @ May 20 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]7088[/snapback]

Ben: While I am sure there are some things that people "hunt" with handguns (other than other people), I can't recall any of them? What exactly do people hunt with handguns?




I have hunted wild boar, deer and got a special permit to hunt a bear one time in ME as a test report for the Fish and Wildlife people there and the gun manufacturer who was tring to sell them the gun.

 

Deer, coyote, groundhog, rabbit, squirrel. Currently setting up a wild boar hunt.

 

Here is a story of an 11 year old boy who went hunting for wild hog with a pistol... It comes from todays AP wire.



MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) - Hogzilla is being made into a horror movie. But the sequel may be even bigger: Meet Monster Pig. An 11-year-old Alabama boy used a pistol to kill a wild hog his father says weighed a staggering 1,051 pounds and measured 9-feet-4 from the tip of its snout to the base of its tail. Think hams as big as car tires.
If the claims are accurate, Jamison Stone's trophy boar would be bigger than Hogzilla, the famed wild hog that grew to seemingly mythical proportions after being killed in south Georgia in 2004.

Hogzilla originally was thought to weigh 1,000 pounds and measure 12 feet in length. National Geographic experts who unearthed its remains believe the animal actually weighed about 800 pounds and was 8 feet long.

Regardless of the comparison, Jamison is reveling in the attention over his pig, which has a Web site put up by his father—http://www.monsterpig.com —that is generating Internet buzz.

"It feels really good," Jamison, of Pickensville, said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. "It's a good accomplishment. I probably won't ever kill anything else that big."

Jamison, who killed his first deer at age 5, was hunting with father Mike Stone and two guides in east Alabama on May 3 when he bagged Hogzilla II. He said he shot the huge animal eight times with a .50- caliber revolver and chased it for three hours through hilly woods before finishing it off with a point-blank shot.

Through it all there was the fear that the animal would turn and charge them, as wild boars have a reputation of doing.

"I was a little bit scared, a little bit excited," said Jamison, who just finished the sixth grade on the honor roll at Christian Heritage Academy, a small, private school.

His father said that, just to be extra safe, he and the guides had high-powered rifles aimed and ready to fire in case the beast with 5- inch tusks decided to charge.

With the pig finally dead in a creek bed on the 2,500-acre Lost Creek Plantation, a commercial hunting preserve in Delta, trees had to be cut down and a backhoe brought in to bring Jamison's prize out of the woods.

It was hauled on a truck to the Clay County Farmers Exchange in Lineville, where Jeff Kinder said they used his scale, which was recently calibrated, to weigh the hog.

Kinder, who didn't witness the weigh-in, said he was baffled to hear the reported weight of 1,051 pounds because his scale—an old, manual style with sliding weights—only measures to the nearest 10.

"I didn't quite understand that," he said.

Mike Stone said the scale balanced one notch past the 1,050-pound mark, and he thought it meant a weight of 1,051 pounds.

"It probably weighed 1,060 pounds. We were just afraid to change it once the story was out," he said.

The hog's head is now being mounted on an extra-large foam form by Jerry Cunningham of Jerry's Taxidermy in Oxford. Cunningham said the animal measured 54 inches around the head, 74 inches around the shoulders and 11 inches from the eyes to the end of its snout.

"It's huge," he said. "It's just the biggest thing I've ever seen."

Mike Stone is having sausage made from the rest of the animal. "We'll probably get 500 to 700 pounds," he said.

Jamison, meanwhile, has been offered a small part in "The Legend of Hogzilla," a small-time horror flick based on the tale of the Georgia boar. The movie is holding casting calls with plans to begin filming in Georgia.

Jamison is enjoying the newfound celebrity generated by the hog hunt, but he said he prefers hunting pheasants to monster pigs.

"They are a little less dangerous."

Here is the web link too:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...amp;image=large

 

They had a picture of the kid with the boar tonight on the news. I could not believe how HUGE that creature was. Attaching a pic I found online...

 

We see a lot of hogs while we are in Florida in the winter but that is far and away the largest we have ever seen. Usually a big one is under 500#.

 

Hello all. I know this topic is probably dead by now, BUT, as a combat wounded MARINE, I can tell you I've had a permit to carry hot and concealed for 35 years. I've only had to put it to the test 3 times. Never fired a shot, BUT, sure did discourage the other partys involved !! As stated earlier, enforce the laws that are already on the books. The LAST thing we need is more foolish laws. h34r:

 

How many guns did Timothy McVeigh use to kill people? How many guns were used to kill on 9/11?

A nut like this will find a way to kill, either through illegal guns or some other kind of weapon.

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt
"When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"

 

QUOTE(Beastdriver @ Apr 16 2007, 02:41 PM) [snapback]6824[/snapback]

First of all, I am about as conservative as you can get, and I don't like government or government intervention. Secondly, I fully expect to receive a ton of opposition to my position, some hate mail, and maybe even a threat or two. But I feel I must speak.

My son is a professor at Virginia Tech and he called me today to discuss the shootings (as of now 32 dead) on the campus at Virginia Tech this morning. Almost all the deaths occurred in the building next to his office.

It is inconceivable to me how anybody can still take the position that the ease of getting guns in this country is right. Some nut goes out and, according to current news reports, acquires not one but two 9mm handguns and then wipes out over two dozen people. If we had responsible gun laws in this country, this would not have happened. It is difficult to kill 32 people with a knive, or a baseball bat, or whatever.

It is time, in my humble opinion, that we stop this madness and make it damned difficult for anybody other than cops and soldiers to get handguns. What will it take to wake up this country to the utter stupidity of our current laws?

I am leaving on Friday of this week for a couple of weeks in New Zealand, a country where even the cops don't carry guns (except for a special squad), and where handgun deaths are virtually unheard of. You simply cannot find a handgun in New Zealand. Its time we consider something like this in this country.

Okay. Fire away. It's your turn.




Sorry that you feel that you are not a free American.

As a citizen of the United States of America, you have a God given RIGHT to own or NOT to own a firearm. It is YOUR CHOICE and you should NEVER make the choice for ME.

No one has ever died as a result of my firearms, I have however saved my life and property just because I do own a firearm.

NO, I am not a member of the NRA.

What if, what if someone decided it was time that people should not have a free forum to discuss daily life? What if, someone decided that you could not travel across the country or the world at a whim? These a freedoms that American (USA) enjoy, personal ownership of a firearm is also a freedom, as is private ownership of civilian aircraft, or even freedom to communicate.

Stop the notion that a freedom needs to be removed because a person, illegally obtained, and abused a firearm.

Perhaps I hear NZ calling you home.

 

BJMA: How you reached the conclusion that I did not feel like a free American from my comments totally escapes me. Perhaps the blowback from all that shootin' you do has affected your brain synapses or something. You might want to see a doctor about that. Seriously, where did you get the idea that I wasn't a free American because I believe in stronger gun controls?????

 

QUOTE(Beastdriver @ Aug 21 2007, 02:40 PM) [snapback]8059[/snapback]

BJMA: How you reached the conclusion that I did not feel like a free American from my comments totally escapes me. Perhaps the blowback from all that shootin' you do has affected your brain synapses or something. You might want to see a doctor about that. Seriously, where did you get the idea that I wasn't a free American because I believe in stronger gun controls?????



re-read what I said, it is all there.

You appear to be an intelligent man, please explain to me how stronger gun control would have prevented VT. The shooter was already acting illegally, already obtained a firearm illegally, at what point do you think that preventing his actions will not infringe on MY RIGHTS, someone who have never acted illegally.

 

For some reason he can't understand the concept that gun control laws affect the legal purchase of guns. It always turns into a personal attack.

Just my opinion,

 

If you want to make incidents like the VT shootings illegal then why not pass a law making it illegal to murder someone. I bet that would stop the killings.

 

It is obvious that disagreement with the gun lobby, the NRA, and people who sincerely believe in the right to own and bear arms is not tolerated. I will say no more on the subject, but I do feel pity for you folks who somehow believe that disagreement with your position is unAmerican. It is sad.