I have no problem with a campground charging exrea for wi-fi or for routing the user to a third party - as long as the campground is up front with it. DO NOT andvertise having wi-fi and then stick the camper with the extra charge. Or, IMHO, worse don't advertize free wi-fi but claim that it is broken and can't get anyone to service it. And don't advertise it and have it available in a very limited area. With technology available today, good systems are not that expensive and can be repaired quickly and easily by competent service people.
I might not be up to date but it seems to me that the telephone, the Internet and other facilities which are not used by everyone in a camp, should be optional, therefore, as separate charge since, including them as part of the general service will increases the fee pro capita. I was reviewing the statement of the gentleman in this chat in which it is stated that, afterwards it is not extremely expensive for the camp owner.... afterwards I have a business on my own...etc.. Well, the statement is not really applicable to every business, it might be convenient to him to provide such kind of freebie in your line of business but you cannot pretend that every one should adopt your line of thought. Other subject that I have to agree with the camp owners is the limitation of people to each trailer and exceeding that number it implies an additional charge . I wish to clarify that, I AM NOT A CAMP OWNER but whatever is reasonable should be considered as fair. Back to the original issue, yes I am for a Internet's user charge but when the Internet service is provided, it should be really operational.
There is an additional cost to the CG owner for WiFi if the use is sub-distributed to others as in campgrounds, above the cost of service to an office computer and so forth. There are tiered services as with any internet services provided by nearly all providers the faster the more costly. In light of this one should remember profit is why a CG is in business. "IMO" a CG can easily add a 2 tier service slower free service and a faster premium service for those which may have a need for this service such as $2.00 per day additional for short term people $1.00 per day additional for longer than 7 days. Of course if a CG wants to charge premium rates for their sites it would be pure stupidity to not provide a fairly speedy WiFi service. All CG should give log ins as "Free Loaders" only slow the total system down. Like others here DO NOT advertise WiFi unless designated Free or Available @ additional charge. WiFi at CG's is not a large deal for us as we use Cellular tethering nearly 100% of the time when service is available. PDWSR
I am amazed by just how heated this subject seems to be. I think that the majority of full-time RV folks carry some means of getting internet with them and so probably feel as I do that we would prefer not to help to pay for those who don't have such service to get internet. We shop for an RV park by the price they charge for the services that we use and really care not at all what services they may offer which we choose not to use and whether or not they charge extra to those who do use them. Thus a park which has a lower base price but charges extra to use the internet connection will tend to attract us over one that charges all of us a higher price that includes internet. I really do not care if it is free or even available as I don't have any need for it, but I won't pay more to stay were others have access to it. It amazes me that so many downplay the cost to the RV park of providing such services. To have good coverage of a larger RV park requires the use of some very expensive equipment, not just the simple router that we use in our homes or RVs. In addition, if the park has many large trees or other obstructions they will need multiple hot spots or some sites will have poor coverage. It use to be that a phone line in the office where folks could go to connect long enough to get email was all that was needed in an RV park, while today we want high speed internet at any site we choose and we want unlimited access to it. In peak periods, this will mean that parks will require a great deal of band width in order for everyone to have reasonably good speed for surfing. Many users today regularly download movies and that requires a lot of bandwidth and it don't come cheaply. Why should everyone be required to help to pay for the heavy user who plans to watch a move to night and want to connect to NetFlicks?
QUOTE(Kirk @ Feb 27 2011, 09:16 PM) [snapback]25525[/snapback] I am amazed by just how heated this subject seems to be. I think that the majority of full-time RV folks carry some means of getting internet with them and so probably feel as I do that we would prefer not to help to pay for those who don't have such service to get internet. We shop for an RV park by the price they charge for the services that we use and really care not at all what services they may offer which we choose not to use and whether or not they charge extra to those who do use them. Thus a park which has a lower base price but charges extra to use the internet connection will tend to attract us over one that charges all of us a higher price that includes internet. I really do not care if it is free or even available as I don't have any need for it, but I won't pay more to stay were others have access to it. It amazes me that so many downplay the cost to the RV park of providing such services. To have good coverage of a larger RV park requires the use of some very expensive equipment, not just the simple router that we use in our homes or RVs. In addition, if the park has many large trees or other obstructions they will need multiple hot spots or some sites will have poor coverage. It use to be that a phone line in the office where folks could go to connect long enough to get email was all that was needed in an RV park, while today we want high speed internet at any site we choose and we want unlimited access to it. In peak periods, this will mean that parks will require a great deal of band width in order for everyone to have reasonably good speed for surfing. Many users today regularly download movies and that requires a lot of bandwidth and it don't come cheaply. Why should everyone be required to help to pay for the heavy user who plans to watch a move to night and want to connect to NetFlicks? I agree. I want a lower price for an overnight stay if I don't use the pool at the park, or the club house, or the dog area, the cable hook-up, or any of the other amenities. :lol:
QUOTE I want a lower price for an overnight stay if I don't use the pool at the park, or the club house, or the dog area, the cable hook-up, or any of the other amenities Perhaps as a user this might seem like a good plan, except the concept of policing dog area, pool, cable, bath house, etc use might become burdensome. But as a business model wouldn't it make more sense to attract those willing to pay for the amenities, ie all or none? For instance, if it were your cg with say 100 spaces full every night would you want 100 @ $40 or 60 @ $40 and 40 @$25 (those that do not use pool, dog area, etc). IMO the only reason to try to attract the lower price client would be if you cannot fill your land otherwise. Sometimes, I think we lose sight of the fact that a campground is not in business for any purpose other than to make as much money as possible. Only a masochist would run a business for any other reason - it is too hard to do.
QUOTE(joez @ Mar 1 2011, 10:58 PM) [snapback]25538[/snapback] Perhaps as a user this might seem like a good plan, except the concept of policing dog area, pool, cable, bath house, etc use might become burdensome. But as a business model wouldn't it make more sense to attract those willing to pay for the amenities, ie all or none? For instance, if it were your cg with say 100 spaces full every night would you want 100 @ $40 or 60 @ $40 and 40 @$25 (those that do not use pool, dog area, etc). IMO the only reason to try to attract the lower price client would be if you cannot fill your land otherwise. Sometimes, I think we lose sight of the fact that a campground is not in business for any purpose other than to make as much money as possible. Only a masochist would run a business for any other reason - it is too hard to do. It was a sarcastic remark to people who do not like to pay for things they may not use. If you want to go that route, then why draw the line at WIFI? Most State and Federal Parks off close to zero amenities. Most commercial parks have to offer amenities to attract customers. Right now, WIFI is used by more people than not so to offer it is an advantage to other parks that offer nothing.
QUOTE(rgatijnet @ Mar 3 2011, 04:25 PM) [snapback]25553[/snapback] It was a sarcastic remark to people who do not like to pay for things they may not use. If you want to go that route, then why draw the line at WIFI? Most State and Federal Parks off close to zero amenities. Most commercial parks have to offer amenities to attract customers. Right now, WIFI is used by more people than not so to offer it is an advantage to other parks that offer nothing. I continue to wonder why it is so many think there ought to be a separate charge for WiFi but have no problem that there is almost never a separate charge for the pool. Providing a pool is far more expensive, brings high liability issues, and involves far more labor from the cg owner than does wifi. It would be easy to institute a special charge for its use, and is probably used by a smaller percentage of clients than the wifi. . Further, wifi is taking on the characteristics of a utility, like water and sewer; but I know of no cg that charges extra for those. Could ask the same question about the cable TV. So why is wifi such a big deal, when the others aren't?
QUOTE(jan-n-john @ Mar 15 2011, 09:43 PM) [snapback]25646[/snapback] I continue to wonder why it is so many think there ought to be a separate charge for WiFi but have no problem that there is almost never a separate charge for the pool. Providing a pool is far more expensive, brings high liability issues, and involves far more labor from the cg owner than does wifi. It would be easy to institute a special charge for its use, and is probably used by a smaller percentage of clients than the wifi. . Further, wifi is taking on the characteristics of a utility, like water and sewer; but I know of no cg that charges extra for those. Could ask the same question about the cable TV. So why is wifi such a big deal, when the others aren't? WiFi isn't inexpensive to provide and it is easy to set up a separate charge for it. That makes it a perfect candidate for it to be an optional charge to give the business the opportunity to make some revenue directly off a service. It is hard to control access to a pool, to the water, sewer etc. Electricity is often billed seperately for longer term stays. I don't care one way or another, I look at the total picture and have options other than park wifi if I need it. It just really doesn't matter to me.
QUOTE I agree. I want a lower price for an overnight stay if I don't use the pool at the park, or the club house, or the dog area, the cable hook-up, or any of the other amenities I take it that you can't grasp the reason that some folks park at Wal-Mart or a truck stop either? Escapee's have 19 RV parks that offer an area with no hook-ups at all. They charge $5/night and those facilities are very popular. Commercial parks could do that same thing and a few of them do. Most of those who stay in parking lots would happily pay a small fee for a place away from the road with no amenities at all, but the practice of trying to supply everything to everyone by raising the price to where it pays is a major factor in people moving to the nearest parking lot to stay with no fee. If park owners need to offer more amenities to attract customers, then perhaps they could do that same thing by offering an area with none at all?
We had an area somewhat like that for a while. Those people that didn't need water or sewer would pull out of the cheap spot and pull into a place to fill their tanks and dump their sewer when they thought no one was looking. They also walked their dogs, often without clean up, they used our dumpsters and/or left their trash at their site. One couple left 5 huge trash bags of trash. They also didn't understand why they couldn't use our WiFi and the rec hall. All those reasons, plus insurance liability, overhead of office staff checking them in all add up to more than a nominal cost. Actually 9 out of 10 of those people using that area were the most rude and obnoxious and demanding of all our campers.
I think it just needs to be cheaper. $10-15 per day is way too expensive. Should be closer to $2-3. There are different tiers of internet service available and large parks would need a higher level subscription to handle massive data needs. I get the impression that some smaller parks probably just have the same type of service that most of us have in our home and are probably violating the terms of service by letting others log onto it. Nonetheless, we camp at a Yogi Bear near our house that has nearly 500 sites and they charge $10 per day for internet. They are pulling in thousands of dollars and there's enough money for profit while still keeping it at a lower cost. Most campers will use internet to stay in touch and not likely be logged on for long periods of time.
QUOTE(dalsgal @ Mar 17 2011, 08:47 PM) [snapback]25659[/snapback] We had an area somewhat like that for a while. Those people that didn't need water or sewer would pull out of the cheap spot and pull into a place to fill their tanks and dump their sewer when they thought no one was looking. They also walked their dogs, often without clean up, they used our dumpsters and/or left their trash at their site. One couple left 5 huge trash bags of trash. They also didn't understand why they couldn't use our WiFi and the rec hall. All those reasons, plus insurance liability, overhead of office staff checking them in all add up to more than a nominal cost. Actually 9 out of 10 of those people using that area were the most rude and obnoxious and demanding of all our campers. The reason they were obnoxious and demanding was they were grumpy cause they were hot and sweaty with out A/C and a good hot shower.
QUOTE(Kirk @ Mar 17 2011, 06:15 PM) [snapback]25654[/snapback] I take it that you can't grasp the reason that some folks park at Wal-Mart or a truck stop either? Escapee's have 19 RV parks that offer an area with no hook-ups at all. They charge $5/night and those facilities are very popular. Commercial parks could do that same thing and a few of them do. Most of those who stay in parking lots would happily pay a small fee for a place away from the road with no amenities at all, but the practice of trying to supply everything to everyone by raising the price to where it pays is a major factor in people moving to the nearest parking lot to stay with no fee. If park owners need to offer more amenities to attract customers, then perhaps they could do that same thing by offering an area with none at all? Kirk, That sounds great in theory if a park has unlimited land. But if a park has used all land available to them, it would be a waste of precious space to provide sites with no hookups, which could not be used by people needing or wanting hookups. As a destination park, we get very few overnighters, and in our hot summer months in Texas when we are full, there is no way that we could rent sites without hookups. When we first built our park 12 years ago most rigs were 30 amp; now most by far are 50 amp rigs. With the trend moving toward 50 amp rigs when we built, we put 50 amp service to all sites when we built the park because a 50 amp rig can't use a 30 amp site, but a 30 amp rig can use any site. Neither can use a site with no hookups in 100 degree weather. Doug
We have stayed at Wal-Mart at least 100 times and it has very little to do with the money. It is all about convenience. Easy in, easy out, buy supplies, usually walk to dinner. We usually buy their gas before we hook back up. The Allstays smart phone app has most independent campgrounds and most Wal-Marts and if they allow camping or not as well as text directions and a map hooked to GPS. If we are in very cold weather like now in ND, we usually stay stay at a park so we can get power to run the electric heat which works down to about 38 degrees. We have a 50 33 ft Itasca and are able to keep cool in very hot weather . Many modern coach have a power management system that will shut things down in order to keep both compressor working. We are at a 30 amp place now (Lincoln Park in Bismarck, ND). We were running 26 amps with both compressors running on reverse cycle. When my wife turned on the microwave, one compressor shut off while it was on.
A note to campground owner what campers like me will be doing. I am now using my Android Verizon when I don't have campground WiFi. We take a lot of photos and I save the full version (4,000 KB) to my hard drive and then reduce down to about 60 kb to post onto our website. I have Carbonite online backup. It would take forever to post these large photos to the webs, so I will get onto the campground WiFi as I go to bed and upload them as I sleep. It will shut off automatically when it finishes. I presently have about 500 of these large files to backup on Carbonite. This will eat up a lot of data on your system. I thought that you might be interested to know as online backup is becoming very popular. Carbonite cost only $55/year for unlimited storage.
QUOTE(Lindsay Richards @ May 16 2011, 08:52 AM) [snapback]26098[/snapback] It would take forever to post these large photos to the webs, so I will get onto the campground WiFi as I go to bed and upload them as I sleep. It will shut off automatically when it finishes. Excellent example (along with watching movies/TV over the internet) of why campground WIFI too often doesn't work well for those who want to do email & browse the web. Some savvy campground owners know this, and put limits on bandwidth hogs.
I also don't empty my black and gray tank at every campground. I wait until they are full and empty them at one campground after 4 or 5 days. I guess that makes me a bad person too? Maybe a sewer hog?
QUOTE Excellent example (along with watching movies/TV over the internet) of why campground WIFI too often doesn't work well for those who want to do email & browse the web. Some savvy campground owners know this, and put limits on bandwidth hogs. Exactly. What is reasonable for one person (OK to download pics/movies, etc) is wasteful to another. That is why campgrounds need to install limiting methods or a system large enough to satisfy everyone. Extra charges for using above a minimum are probably the most effective way. We have seen campgrounds threaten to kick customers out who use Skype, Netflix or other high bandwith uses - don't know how they enforce or if it is an empty threat. We have stayed at campgrounds where the system automatically shuts down for you once you use your alloted amount. Asking me to limit bandwidth so others can share is kind of like asking me to buy a Prius and save gasoline so a developing country like Bangledesh has gas to use. I conserve when it is to my benefit (save money). I recycle when it is easy and to my benefit. I am too simple minded to try to save the world or save some campground bandwidth for others to use, especially when I cannot tell how much is the right amount to save. We supply our own unlimited data through the use of a smart phone hot spot. Depending on reliable campground WiFi is too much a crap shoot for us. JMO
Maybe we should be assigned times for showers in our coaches to keep up the water pressure for everybody else. We don't want these water hogs around.
