QUOTE(Lonesoldier @ Dec 6 2009, 07:16 PM) [snapback]20252[/snapback] Why is it called camping if you require WIFI? Many of us camp for months at a time and need WiFi for business and entertainment purposes. I do all of my banking and bill paying online. I get most of my news from the internet. I really didn't need it when I took the Boy Scout troop out for the weekend, but when we are gone from Feburary through June, it is nice not to have my electricity, gas, and water shut off when I return. Camping has different definations for all of us and since we are all "campers" we must understand what we all do. The availability of WiFi had exploaded in recent year. The service various a huge amount. Happy Camping.
I can understand why the full-timers and others want WIFI. Admittedly, it is nice to have to check weather, find things to do in the area, etc. On the flip-side, I understand why many (if not most) do not require WIFI access. I think WIFI should be extra, pay for usage, but have a hotspot near the store, or rec room somewhere. This way, if you want it at your site, you can pay for it and have it, or you can run up to the rec room to do what you need to do real quick. A hotspot is easier to install and maintain rather than having good WIFI connection throughout the park, especially if it's a larger, spread out park. My reasoning for this is, nothing is free. If they don't charge extra for connectivity, but offer it for "free," it's added to the cost for EVERYONE, including those who don't use it. Asking for it for free would be like me asking for all five kids for free. Most CGs charge extra for anything more than the 2 adults and 2/3 kids. It wouldn't be fair for you to pay extra to cover the costs of me having more kids, and it wouldn't be fair for the campground to charge everyone extra for WIFI. Just my two cents.
Hi grim509, I've never agreed with extra charges for extra people. I'm a "one price" kind of guy. I don't use the meeting halls, and rarely use a pool--but I don't mind them being included in the price. I'm fairly sure that running a pool of any size dwarfs the cost of wifi.
WiFi is nice to have but the security issue needs to be addressed- I have stayed at two capmp Grounds where it was a known fact that the manager snooped in on people's web browsing and read emails.( This took place at Serendipity RV Park in Palacious,Tx and Country Livin RV Park in Foley,Al.) If there was a way to have internet/WiFi and have it be on a secure net it would be great. By the way- It is NEVER legal to snoop and read emails-EVER.All of the managers of RV Parks read the following-Snooping in on emails is a felony and is punishable by up to 5 years in prison with up to a 250,000. fine. -Computer Crime (page 2) | National Notary Association Explain that snooping in other people's e-mail may lead to civil and criminal ... "People don't expect their e-mail to be read by others, but e-mail lives on for a ... www.nationalnotary.org/news/ Stored Electronic Communications Provisions of ECPA Access to electronic communications in storage comes under the Stored Electronic Communications provisions of the ECPA, which prohibits the unauthorized access to stored communications, such as electronic mail, and disclosure of the contents.16 Federal Wiretap Act Interceptions of electronic communications in “real time” come under the federal Wiretap Act. That Act provides that any person who intentionally intercepts an electronic communication is guilty of a felony and subject to a fine of up to $250,000 and imprisonment for up to five years All RV Park managers with WiFi read adn heed-Being a manager does NOT give you the right to snoop and read the email of those staying at your park.Not only is it wrong it can and will get you fined,put in jail and or sued.
QUOTE(lucky2 @ Mar 6 2010, 05:55 PM) [snapback]21194[/snapback] WiFi is nice to have but the security issue needs to be addressed- I have stayed at two capmp Grounds where it was a known fact that the manager snooped in on people's web browsing and read emails.( This took place at Serendipity RV Park in Palacious,Tx and Country Livin RV Park in Foley,Al.) If there was a way to have internet/WiFi and have it be on a secure net it would be great. By the way- It is NEVER legal to snoop and read emails-EVER.All of the managers of RV Parks read the following-Snooping in on emails is a felony and is punishable by up to 5 years in prison with up to a 250,000. fine. -Computer Crime (page 2) | National Notary Association Explain that snooping in other people's e-mail may lead to civil and criminal ... "People don't expect their e-mail to be read by others, but e-mail lives on for a ... www.nationalnotary.org/news/ Stored Electronic Communications Provisions of ECPA Access to electronic communications in storage comes under the Stored Electronic Communications provisions of the ECPA, which prohibits the unauthorized access to stored communications, such as electronic mail, and disclosure of the contents.16 Federal Wiretap Act Interceptions of electronic communications in “real time” come under the federal Wiretap Act. That Act provides that any person who intentionally intercepts an electronic communication is guilty of a felony and subject to a fine of up to $250,000 and imprisonment for up to five years All RV Park managers with WiFi read adn heed-Being a manager does NOT give you the right to snoop and read the email of those staying at your park.Not only is it wrong it can and will get you fined,put in jail and or sued. I am curious just how the RV park accomplished this, and how you know. Such activity requires a fairly high degree of technical proficiency. Be aware, however, that the RV park does have some potential liability if guests of the park use their system to preform illegal activities. For example, if a guest downloaded child pornography over the park's wifi system, the park could face potential prosecution for distributing pornographic material. Legally, the park has the right and potentially even the obligation, to monitor and assure that it's server is not being used to conduct illegal activity. Also, businesses frequently monitor bandwidth usage to assure their users are not downloading large files that would slow down their system or are being accessed by computers that are distributing spam etc. There is a big difference between tracking the IP addresses and websites being accessed by computers on a server and reading the actual traffic being sent over that system. Many commercial WiFi systems have software that will alert the system owner when certain websites and certain types of traffic move over their server. Without further information, I would think this is the more likely scenario, not a wifi system owner reading actual traffic.
I am a seasonal at a cg in N.H. they just installed wifi. It was a $5000 investment up front for the cg and it only reached about half the sites. They have recently installed boosters to send the signal to the rest of the cg. Most of the time you get a good 4-5 bars, but sometimes you don't and it is slow. The cg charges $5/day-25/week, they also have monthly and yearly deals also. Depending on your needs its not a bad deal. More and more privately owned campgrounds are closing down and/or corporations are buying them up. The big corp. can afford to advertise free wifi but like it was said before, nothing is free and you are paying for it one way or another. I rather pay for the service I recieve and not have to pay for the service I don't want ( free wifi already added into your rate).
QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ Mar 7 2010, 11:53 AM) [snapback]21196[/snapback] I am curious just how the RV park accomplished this, and how you know. Such activity requires a fairly high degree of technical proficiency. Be aware, however, that the RV park does have some potential liability if guests of the park use their system to preform illegal activities. For example, if a guest downloaded child pornography over the park's wifi system, the park could face potential prosecution for distributing pornographic material. Legally, the park has the right and potentially even the obligation, to monitor and assure that it's server is not being used to conduct illegal activity. Also, businesses frequently monitor bandwidth usage to assure their users are not downloading large files that would slow down their system or are being accessed by computers that are distributing spam etc. There is a big difference between tracking the IP addresses and websites being accessed by computers on a server and reading the actual traffic being sent over that system. Many commercial WiFi systems have software that will alert the system owner when certain websites and certain types of traffic move over their server. Without further information, I would think this is the more likely scenario, not a wifi system owner reading actual traffic. Interesting your answer, kcmoedoe, I am not challenging you but I would like to know how a camp site could be responsible for some thing perpetrated by a camper. I don't know the law in USA, however, the internet provider is dealing directly with the user, not with the camper and it appears to me that,if the resort is scrutinizing this facility it is like listening to a telephone conversation without authorization. Or there is some provision in USA that allows otherwise ?
QUOTE(Galli @ May 19 2010, 10:50 AM) [snapback]22168[/snapback] Interesting your answer, kcmoedoe, I am not challenging you but I would like to know how a camp site could be responsible for some thing perpetrated by a camper. I don't know the law in USA, however, the internet provider is dealing directly with the user, not with the camper and it appears to me that,if the resort is scrutinizing this facility it is like listening to a telephone conversation without authorization. Or there is some provision in USA that allows otherwise ? But they're not listening to anything. If you use a phone in a hotel, they're going to keep a log of what number you dialed, what time you started the call, and how long the call lasted. Likewise, they are also going to log which IP's you went to and at what time. They're not looking at what is on the site, they are just protecting themselves. They probably have a list of IP's that they already block (and probably amount of bandwidth). It would be reasonable to assume a CG would do the same thing. Just like a bartender can be held liable if someone gets drunk at their bar then drives and causes a wreck - if you give someone the tools to do anything nowadays, you are responsible. First lesson they taught us in Business Law - you go after the one with the deepest pockets.
QUOTE(Galli @ May 19 2010, 08:50 AM) [snapback]22168[/snapback] Interesting your answer, kcmoedoe, I am not challenging you but I would like to know how a camp site could be responsible for some thing perpetrated by a camper. I don't know the law in USA, however, the internet provider is dealing directly with the user, not with the camper and it appears to me that,if the resort is scrutinizing this facility it is like listening to a telephone conversation without authorization. Or there is some provision in USA that allows otherwise ? You are responsible for the traffic that runs across your router. Businesses are required to conduct a certain amount of due dillegence to make sure their equipment (router, network and access points) are not being used for illegal purposes. The standard is not very high, but most wifi providers have a disclaimer you sign off on (the click here to agree to the policy button). They also use filters and blocks on certain websites. Also, they monitor the IP addresses traffic is being sent to to prevent spam from being sent (if 100,000 IP addresses are accessed in an hour it is a pretty clear sign that the customer isn't surfing the net or sending photos to friends.) If a business is not dillegent in maintaining security of their networks, they can be held liable. In a campground situation, they are providing open access to their routers and network, a liability situation clearly exists, hence the disclaimers and filters and monitors. They would most likely be monitoring bandwidth usage with an automatic notification if there was a potential problem from extreme usage or repeated attempts to access blocked sites.
QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ May 20 2010, 09:36 PM) [snapback]22188[/snapback] You are responsible for the traffic that runs across your router. Businesses are required to conduct a certain amount of due dillegence to make sure their equipment (router, network and access points) are not being used for illegal purposes. The standard is not very high, but most wifi providers have a disclaimer you sign off on (the click here to agree to the policy button). They also use filters and blocks on certain websites. Also, they monitor the IP addresses traffic is being sent to to prevent spam from being sent (if 100,000 IP addresses are accessed in an hour it is a pretty clear sign that the customer isn't surfing the net or sending photos to friends.) If a business is not dillegent in maintaining security of their networks, they can be held liable. In a campground situation, they are providing open access to their routers and network, a liability situation clearly exists, hence the disclaimers and filters and monitors. They would most likely be monitoring bandwidth usage with an automatic notification if there was a potential problem from extreme usage or repeated attempts to access blocked sites. .I have nothing to hide, therefore, I don't mind this intromission and I understand the main reason for these controls that should cut down electronic pornography and other illicit transmissions, however, considering the long range aspect of the fact, I see that the privacy of the individual is going to hell. My concern is not for the police to monitor illegal traffic but for unethical people (i.e. RV camp administration or internet provider ….people with personal interest .. etc..) exploring and then taking advantage of the information. I shall give you an example, if your doctor send you an E-mail confirming or postponing your treatment for, let say cancer, or, your lawyer for your divorce, this information in the hands of an improper person may be harmful. Mine is not a complaint but a statement As an example I wish to quote what happen recently in Europe, it appears that an employ of a very important bank was able to get posses of the names and account number of more than 70,000 people and then attempted to sale the information to illicit market. I don't know if this action could have been prevented but it remains the fact of improper access to electronic information
The economy, hits everyone and every business. I think you should be charged for the wifi service, if you are going to use it, everything cost money. Campgrounds are in the business to make money if they do not they will not be there to enjoy. Put the shoe on your foot would you work or give your product away for free. Remember you get charged different prices based on your site's amenities.
We stayed at one park that required you to register with an online service to use their WIFI. The service itself was free, up to a point. This meant that for normal surfing, emails, etc, the WIFI was free. BUT, if you wanted to download a large file, such as a movie, you had to then pay an extra charge. I felt this was not only fair, but it was a smart thing to do at the park. As some on here have posted, downloading movies is becoming a more common thing to do while on the road. I have no problem with that, but most people do not realize that doing this can quickly overload the bandwidth and download speed and it can basically cripple the WIFI connection for the rest of the people in the park that wishes to just check their email, etc. I do not remember the upcharge, if you exceeded the free download amount, but I do know that it required you to enter a credit card number to continue.
One time I was cut off from wifi at campground because I did not know that downloading movies used a lot of bandwidth and I was downloading several episodes of either 24 or Lost. Since that time I am careful to try and limit my time online to emails etc. I am wondering if watching a tv episode on network sites (ABC, NBC or CBS) is also using a lot of bandwidth?? Also on this topic of wifi in campgrounds, I find it annoying to see wifi advertised and then find out it is only available at the building. I understand the cost is a lot to have a good system installed but it just seems kind of deceptive to say wifi is available.
QUOTE(drmcleod @ Jul 18 2008, 04:18 PM) [snapback]12323[/snapback] Should Campgrounds charge for Internet access? I would like to get other opinions on this. My opinion is no! I have two reasons for this. First, as a consumer. Having free internet access is actually one of the things I look for in a campground. It's a 'perk' if you will. If I have the choice between two, somewhat comparable, c/g's then I will choose the one with free WiFi. Heck, I'll even choose the one with free WiFi over one that is slightly nicer with fee for service. I don't really care if it is free, or extra cost so long as the price is listed on the campgrounds website. If one campground is $40/night + $15/night WiFi and another is $50/night with free WiFi then I can figure if I do buy WiFi the $50/night one is cheaper. I don't like it at all if a place says free WiFi, but they mean "it is free for a half hour, then you can pay $15/day". I don't know if it is actually illegal, but it feels wrong, shady, and dirty. QUOTE(drmcleod @ Jul 18 2008, 04:18 PM) [snapback]12323[/snapback] Second, as a business owner (of which I am one). It does not cost more to allow the whole campground access to your broadband service. The only additional expense is the addition of the hardware. In some cases this might be more expensive if additional antennas are required and installation requires an expert. Also, a higher than basic internet subscription is needed. However, if the c/g is going to charge for its WiFi service, then all of this has to be done anyway. Therefore, consider it a marketing expense to drive more people to your c/g. Why do you think that places like Panera Bread and even McDonald's are offering free WiFi? I know I choose to eat there when I need a place to surf while I eat. In my case, I want more people to come to my place of business, so I make my wireless service available to all. It costs me no more, but brings more people to me. What do you think? As you said, it does cost more to offer WiFi to a whole campground, and the more folks use it the more it costs you (50 people can't share a T1's worth of bandwidth and be happy, but 3 people can). When you offer WiFi for free then everyone who wants to use it will. When you offer it for $15/day only people that really want it will use it, so you will have fewer users. You can buy enough bandwidth to make them happy for less money. Their individual payments might even manage to break even. You also may be able to find some company that will install WiFi for you and manage it, and pay for it if only you let them charge your customers. That might be a great deal for a campground. So "WiFi available" might be a LOT less costly then "WiFi FREE". Less costly isn't always better though, it MIGHT be better to spend more and be able to say FREE! It also might be just too much extra money.
Come on Jack, We want to pay 1/2 price and for you to give us everything that the full price parks have included. Oh, and I would like a pull thru that is dead level and has no trees to go around please. quote name='Just Jack' date='Aug 30 2008, 02:24 PM' post='13012'] I am a owner of a RV park and have read through most of the postings in this forum. I have considered free wifi. I think there are more factors involved. One of the main factors is location of the park, is it a remote location where satillites are required to receive a signal or is where a DSL or cable line available to the property. We have to use satillites which is very expensive therefore we charge for wifi. Guests need to consider this before demanding free services. A couple of posting here come to mind. Is if fair to have free wifi and charge the same space rent to the person who doesn't use it or do I give that person a discount. I say no. If a park offers options when you arrive pick the ones you want to pay for them. If they charge for cable and you have a satillite do you need the cable, no, so you don't pay for it. If you have you own internet satallite do you want wifi, no. Pick the from the options offered and pay for them. One posting said they were at a park that had free wifi and the park had $50 router off of a computer in the back room that worked perfect. Is that a secure conection? Another issue is most RV'ers traveling more than a week a year have a pocket full of discount cards. Good Sam to Passport America, AAA, etc. all wanting a better rate and full survices included. So everyone throw away your discount cards and pay the published rate and I will give you free wifi. [/quote]
All of the discount cards you mentioned have to be joined by the park owner before the camper can use any of them. My suggestion would be, if you don't want RV'ers to use discount cards, then don't sign up for the programs. This would keep all those pesky customers with a handful of discount cards away from your park and over at your competitors park. I know the PPA and Good Sam indicates that the Rver isn’t to receive a stripped down site for their discount. Discounting is a way to increase occupancy. I don’t think you can assume that if you don’t give that discount, then the RVer is going to stay and pay the full price. I know I don’t. It is a competitive world out there and discounting can bring in folks you wouldn’t have ever seen if you didn’t. The owner (in NE) I revered to had a home type router hooked up to cable and was very fast. He gave us the password when we checked in. Not sure why you would think we needed a secure site at a campground. If I am going to do banking, my bank provides an encrypted, secure site all the way to my keyboard. You will see the https in the address line (instead of the http.) My router at home isn’t secure either.
QUOTE(drmcleod @ Jul 18 2008, 06:18 PM) [snapback]12323[/snapback] Should Campgrounds charge for Internet access? I would like to get other opinions on this. My opinion is no! I have two reasons for this. First, as a consumer. Having free internet access is actually one of the things I look for in a campground. It's a 'perk' if you will. If I have the choice between two, somewhat comparable, c/g's then I will choose the one with free WiFi. Heck, I'll even choose the one with free WiFi over one that is slightly nicer with fee for service. Second, as a business owner (of which I am one). It does not cost more to allow the whole campground access to your broadband service. The only additional expense is the addition of the hardware. In some cases this might be more expensive if additional antennas are required and installation requires an expert. Also, a higher than basic internet subscription is needed. However, if the c/g is going to charge for its WiFi service, then all of this has to be done anyway. Therefore, consider it a marketing expense to drive more people to your c/g. Why do you think that places like Panera Bread and even McDonald's are offering free WiFi? I know I choose to eat there when I need a place to surf while I eat. In my case, I want more people to come to my place of business, so I make my wireless service available to all. It costs me no more, but brings more people to me. What do you think? i think that they shouldn't charge for the fact that the camp ground where i stay at is called fishermans retreat and they charge 2 dollars a day and 10 dollars for 7 days and the internet is very slow running at a wopping 13KB's it's unbelievably slow and i get disconnected all the time i tried talking to the person who sets it up and he said they offer 1.5 mbits and I dont get that speed i wish they would take away the crappy internet and offer something good atleast if they are charging 10 dollars a week
If they charge, it needs to work throughout the entire RV park, and work WELL. I will notk pay for WIFI unless I am not in a Verizon cellular area because I have paid too many times for "service" that rarely worked, or did not work at all. My cellular broadband is faster than 99% of the RV park WIFI I have used around the country, and my cost is $1 per day. Give me good and reliable service at $1 or less per day, and I would be happy to use it.
Well put AFChap, I agree 110%. We have a roof mounted DataStorm satellite dish for our Internet and it works about 99% of the time. When I know we are going to a park that is known for its "shade", read satellite blocking trees, and they advertise Wi-fi and cable TV they better both be awesome in every aspect, and exactly as advertised. My take on charging separately for Internet is that nine times out of ten the service is terrible, and leads to a closer look at other aspects of the park that ultimately end up in the comments about the park and an overall lower rating. Things i might choose to overlook in other parks. As fulltimers for many years, we've seen enough parks to know when to oh and ah, versus when to realize the owner is trying to pull a fast one.
I got my Radio Wave set up to be usable on my new Windows Seven Computer. Didn't have it last time and it really hurt. Really easy to use now. Not having a WiFi antenna really limits you in RV'ing.
