Misleading Wi-Fi Claims

QUOTE(mpj @ Jun 20 2005, 07:19 AM) [snapback]2182[/snapback]

From a campground owner: we have installed for WIFI - a Siemens Modem, a Linksys Router, a Netgear Access Point + Exterior antenna (on the office building), a 2nd Access Point + Antenna approxiamtely 300 feet into the park. That only reaches 1/2 our park and has cost us ove $2,000 dollars. Problem: it does not always work out in the park. It flucuates to the point that I have to reboot the system every day and sometimes 3 or 4 times per day. We know it, our tech knows it, but no one can help solve the problem. We are surrounded by businesses that may have WIFI as we get addtional SSIDs when we search for our connection. Could this be part of the problem? Anyone have any suggestions? As a side note: we had a system last year that worked but got hit by lighting this past winter when we were closed and have had to replace everything (so our costs have doubled) Our WIFI is provided thru DSL. We are trying to get it to work and we are contantly apologizing. Most of the campers do not mind coming to the office because it is still new to them and I can help them get started. But right now we are very frustrated with the whole thing. We know it brings us campers - but we also know it is turning some away when they cannot get it at their site.


:lol: Thank you for your honest statement MPJ, I sympathize with what you are saying, I see that running an efficient business implies headache and money too, however and if I may advance my point of view, did you specify, exactly, what you wanted to the company that installed the devise, at the time of the contract, of course ? I am talking about specifics in the contract, did you specify the range that the devise was needed for ? If this is the case and the product delivered was not in accordance with the specification as per contract, you may pursue the matter legally. h34r:
Going back to the actual campsite, I would be ready to wave your responsibility for not providing the service to every corners of your campsite as long as you can provide a place where the campers could go to use the system.
What I am really criticizing is those campgrounds that advertise the service when the signal is not existent.
Years ago I was in Carrabelle, Florida, the campsite had an HiFi equipment, however, the strength of the line was providing service as far as 30 - 40 years around the recreation center, well, I wasn’t happy but at least I could go there and use my computer whenever I wanted. B)
In your final noted, I read that some campers left the place because the internet line was not up to their side, well MPJ, you will never satisfy every body, you will always fine some one complaining that the space is too small, too big, too far or too close to the water or…. Invent…., the most important thing is that you have an operational internet and for good business, you should mention to the new comers that places such and such are receiving internet service up to the trailer the rest of the places must commute to the recreational center in order to have such a service.
In closing, you could increase the rates for the service when accessible from the RV.

 

I can tell you exactly what is going on when it comes to poor wifi signal. I am a tech support agent for a wifi provider at Florida RV campgrounds. so I am as my nic says, "In The Know"...

Before you blame your wifi provider, you need to know about how the technology works and what its limitations are.

let me explain some major points.

RVs aren't the worlds greatest for enhancing wifi signal. As a matter of fact they cause tons of interference when the wifi signal is trying to penetrate the aluminum/fiberglass shell of your RV. If you cannot get a decent cell phone signal or a radio signal inside your RV, what on Gods green earth makes you think that you will get a good signal from an antenna that is 400, 500, 600, 700+ feet away?

Do you call your telco because your cordless phone wont get a signal when you are a mile away from it?

You can read more on wifi Range issues here:
http://www.wi-fi.org/knowledge_center/kc-w...andenvironment/

The built in wifi device in your laptop is simply put, too weak to be effective over long ranges. It was designed to be used in a home or office network, not 300+ feet.

The issue isnt that our antenna cannot see your radio, its the other way around. YOUR 30mw built in wif device is not powerful enough to travel thru the paneling> insulation > aluminum/fiberglass shell of your RV or in other words, the providers wifi antenna isnt seeing your computer because its like an ant trying to talk to a giant.

Better yet, you could compare it to trying to have a conversation across a lake with the other person talking thru a bullhorn and you without. Yeah, sure you can hear the other guy talking thru the bullhorn, but they cant hear you.

Another complaint we get is this. "It worked fine until others came in and parked around me"
Again, the problem here is interference.

I always recommend to our customers that they buy at least a 200mw USB wireless device.

Something else that works is simply stepping out of your RV. Most of the time you will find that once you are outside of the interference of your RV, your signal will be better.

 

Intheknow:

With all due respect, I certainly hope I never have an electronics problem and have to call upon you. I showed your comments to three friends who are electronic "nerds" and all agree: You make some valid points but, for the most part, are way off base. Each of my friends noted that wi-fi reception is almost always a function of how far you are located from a transmitting device (repeater or antenna.) In fact, the very article you cited in your comments notes that you "could get a signal from up to a mile away depending on the antennas you use and environmental conditions. I see parks all the time with little bitty "rabbit ears" antennas atop a building and poor wi-fi reception. They won't pay to install a system with the proper antenna, and with additional repeaters or antennas throughout the park.

The article you cited also noted that you can greatly improve range and performance by adding more antennas--a situation that most RV parks don't address.

I have a DataStorm satellite system whereby the signal received via satellite is transferred to a LinkSys wi-fi system which, in turn, broadcasts throughout the coach and to nearby coaches. On many occasions, I have had neighbors parked several spaces away use my system when they could not get the wi-fi signal from the park because of a lack of antennas and repeaters.

Again, I state emphatically, if a park advertises wi-fi, the management of that park should spend the dollars necessary to place antennas and repeaters throughout the park so that all campers in that park can access the system with reasonable speed. I'm sorry but I don't buy your arguments, and neither do other knowledgeable electronics people.

One of the problems we run into time and time again is that RV park management, not being experts on wi-fi, hire so called local "experts" to install a system that doesn't work as promised. These so-called experts provide a low-ball bid to get the job, and leave the park owners holding the bag when it comes to actual performance. And as a person who stays in 50-60 RV parks throughout the country every year, I can assure you that I am in-the-know about this!

 

I am not "in the know" about technology things, but we recently stayed at an rv park in Wyoming that adverised wi-fi in big letters in their ad. As that is important to us, we selected this park, only to learn that the only place their wi-fi could be accessed was standing outside the office window - no tables, chairs, or even window ledge to sit your laptop on on - just had to stand there and hold it. To me this was certainly deceptive advertising...

 

Cheryl: I think we may have stayed at the same park. The one I was at also had big letters promoting wi-fi in their ad, but they had a wireless router with small rabbit ears sitting in the window on the first floor of their office. It had a range of about ten feet. Again, they simply either did not want to spend the money to have the proper antenna on their roof, or did not know they should (which I doubt.)

 

While we're on this subject, more or less involving campground advertising, what about those that state cable available but only provide a handful of channels? Or the "big rig" friendly parks where the sites aren't or they don't want to put you in one because you aren't 45 feet long? Then there are the campground directories that rate a park high, but when you get there, you'd have a much lower opinion of it.

The previous suggestion made by ChamberlainCourt about the cell service wireless data card is valid. For about the same monthly fees that you would pay for Wi-Fi, you can get wireless service that is pretty much good anywhere you travel - and even while you are moving. At this moment I am in a Corp park in the middle of nowhere (on a large site) and am connected via my wireless data card. Later, I'll be able to watch 100+ channels on my satellite system. It's nice to be independent of the advertising.

This is one of the best websites to get an honest opinion(s) on campgrounds. I would respectfully suggest that when we do provide one, we include the positives or negatives of what was advertised. I also agree with the Administrator on the suggestion of feedback to campground owners.

Rich















ChamberlainCourt

 

Rich, most of us don't have overly high opinions of most of the directories. I mainly use them to see what parks are available in the area we will be travelling and then check to see what my friends here have to say about those parks....

 

I consistantly receive bad WIFI service at most campground pay or free. Actually none are really free, if you notice the c/g fee went up as soon as they advertised WIFI. I am sure there are some that are honestly trying to accomadate the RVer, most are just using it as bait to get the RVer in the lot. Using the same lap top, I get excellent WIFI signals at truck stops.

 

For the WiFi geeks or those who know - My laptop has the built in WiFi. Sometimes it gets a good signal and sometimes not. It looks like the cantennas are used when one has a WiFi card but not for internal WiFi. I've read some places where people recommend the Hawking HWU8DD or the HWL2 or some places of building their own www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz .
So what's the easiest to use and will get the best results? I don't want to spend the money on something that really won't be much improvement, aggravate with something that constantly needs tweaking, or building something that really doesn't work.
Appreciate the help.

 

Wadcutter: Unfortunately, if your unit has a modern wi-fi card in it, there is not a lot you can do if the signal is not there in the first place. If the Park has wi-fi service, but does not take the necessary actions, as described herein, to cover the park with antennas and repeaters, you can slightly tweak your reception with hardware such as Hawking and others but you cannot, under any circumstances, amplify a signal that does not exist. The problem is not with your equipment so much as it is with the failure or the campground to propertly project and direct its signal throughout the park.

 

Beastdriver,

I do this for a living, so every point I brought up was valid.

Now, Im not saying that there aren't parks that offer shotty Wifi service because there are. But, in our case, we have an average of 3-4 high gain antennas in the best locations around the parks, sitting anywhere from 10 to 15 feet above ground throughout our parks.

I still get calls daily about connectivity issues, and its not because we are using junk equipment.

QUOTE

"could get a signal from up to a mile away depending on the antennas you use and environmental conditions"


That is a very powerful statement and my exact point.

If you are using a 20mw wifi transceiver sitting inside your RV that has insulation, a steel frame, aluminum/fiberglass shell, 500 feet away from the wifi access point thats where those pesky "antenna you use and environmental factors" factor in.

Plus other environmental factor are, how many RVs are around you? Do you have a microwave oven in your RV? How about a cordless phone that operates on the 2.4Ghz band? All of which are instances of environmental interference.

Radio communication (what wifi basically boils down to) is a two way street. Its like trying to use a walkie talkie CB to try to talk to someone that has a high powered radio with a linear amplifier. You can hear their broadcast but try as you might, they will never hear you.

 

Intheknow:

Thanks. Obviously, if you have antennas throughout the park as you say, but you still have guests that cannot receive it, you need to place additional antennas or move the ones you have. You substantiate my point: If you put in the right equipment, in the right places, no guest should be without wifi.

 

QUOTE(Beastdriver @ May 25 2005, 08:57 AM) [snapback]2097[/snapback]

We've been to three campgrounds in a row that advertise that they have wi-fi, and are listed in Trailer Life as having wi-fi. Yet, when we get there, we find they have a very weak wi-fi transmitter plugged into the office with no signal available outside of the office area. In effect, the campground has NO wi-fi. I would like to suggest that, when folks write up a campground, they specifically address whether or not the campground has wi-fi that reaches to the sites. Thanks!

 

QUOTE(Beastdriver @ May 25 2005, 08:57 AM) [snapback]2097[/snapback]

We've been to three campgrounds in a row that advertise that they have wi-fi, and are listed in Trailer Life as having wi-fi. Yet, when we get there, we find they have a very weak wi-fi transmitter plugged into the office with no signal available outside of the office area. In effect, the campground has NO wi-fi. I would like to suggest that, when folks write up a campground, they specifically address whether or not the campground has wi-fi that reaches to the sites. Thanks!

 

Please do not think I am being rude or mean, I am really not trying to be. I often see posts on this forum where someone is "quoting" another post, but there is no reply from them other than the cited post. I am just wondering why this is - is it that they agree with everything said and have nothing to add, or is it that they did add a post but some techincal glitch prevented their reply from being posted? I really am quite curious about this......

 

Cheryl: I think it is because the "Quote" and ""Reply" buttons are not intuitive, and are often confused with the "Fast Reply" "Add Reply", etc., buttons. My son is a professor of Human Factors (making devices, etc., user friendly) at a major university, and he says that this site, while generally well-designed, is a killer when it comes to these areas. That's why you see so many "quotes" hanging out there with no response. Perhaps, when this site is next cleaned-up, the Webmaster will consider making these buttons more intuitive.

 

Beastdriver, thanks for the explanation. Being the nosy type anyway, I just have to know what is going on and have been wondering about that one for awhile. Several of the forums I am on, have the fast reply button, but as I don't know what purpose it serves, I have never used it.

 

QUOTE(Cheryl Fuller @ Jan 28 2007, 12:44 PM) [snapback]5928[/snapback]

Beastdriver, thanks for the explanation. Being the nosy type anyway, I just have to know what is going on and have been wondering about that one for awhile. Several of the forums I am on, have the fast reply button, but as I don't know what purpose it serves, I have never used it.

 

Hello...I am not a computer expert, my grandkids are...I had Issues with WI-Fi in campgrounds...So I called a HotSpots WiFi Tech...He said to go to ALK Hawkings Technoligy...Check out the Hi- Gain Antenna Laptop Card..HWC 54D...Solved my Issues with Wi-Fi Signal 95% OF the time......Also a Hawkings Hi-Gain Antenna HWU 54 DM USB Port and a Hawkings Hi Gain USB Wireless Dish HWU * DD..(Ht.3"x W. 3") They also have Outside Hi-Gain Antennas for Roof Top Mounting....Many Online Web Store to make Purchases.......I was last month picking up a signal, that the campground had Wi-Fi in a Box System....One basci Hi-Gain Antenna on Campground Office Roof top....I was 1500ft. from the office antenna and got a Normal Signal with the Hawkings Hi-Gain Antenna....Also anybody in sites close to me with a built in wi-fi mini card in the laptop, got no signal at all.....These Hi-Gain Antennas for Laptops do work...I have been to 2 campgrounds that have handed out printed Info on Hawkings Products.....Just My Experience....Jim A.

 

I decided to build one like this:
http://dustydragon.com/wifi.htm
Even with a built in WiFi it looks like there is something that can be done to improve reception. It works really well. Much improvement over the internal WiFi card.