Ouestion For Campers From A Park Owner

QUOTE(DXSMac @ Jun 12 2009, 11:13 AM) [snapback]16930[/snapback]

Gilda, tell people to shut off their computers when they are not using the internet. On a laptop, you can just shut the lid to go to "sleep" mode. This disconnects from the WiFi, and will reconnect when you open the lid. It's automatic.

When you are 100% full, you want to make sure people aren't connected when they aren't using it.

JJ

People will not respect a request to turn off their computers. That is just a fact. Also, you have to do more than just turn off the computer, you must actually log off the system due to the "leasing of space" that occurs within a router. Whenever someone logs into a router a certain amount of bandwidth is assigned to that user, it doesn't necessarily end when a user turns off the computer. Most routers license for either a 12 or a 24 hour period, this prevents the system from continually bumping off in the middle of internet session. Being what appears to be a casual user, you can not believe how invested some people are in their internet. To some people, turning off their internet is akin to turning off their heart/lung machine. It would literally kill them.


QUOTE(RLM @ Jun 12 2009, 10:13 AM) [snapback]16928[/snapback]

It works for Starbucks and the like, but I'll defer to your campground expertise on the needy Rvers.

I'm probably giving away a million dollar idea, but I wonder if there would be a way to provide broad band connections with the cable tv on individual sites. It's routinely done in houses.


You need to have a modem at each contact point (home) on a cable internet. You also need to have jacks that would support either an ethernet or USB connection. RVs do not have ethernet or USB connections outside. USB cable is good for only about 6 feet of transmission without amplification and who has 30 or more feet of ethernet cable on their RV and then want to run it through the window or the door to their laptop and then have the laptop tethered to a cable. It would supply great service, but no way would it be customer friendly enough for today's RVers.

 

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QUOTE(optomyst @ Jun 12 2009, 10:13 AM) [snapback]16927[/snapback]

If you have 50 sites and you charge what some are charging (3.95/day), that gives you roughly $200 per day or $6000. per month. That would cover a lot more than your WiFi provider. That's pretty steep.

If I could raise my prices $3.95 a day, you can bet I would. The truth is, my pricing is what I can charge, anything I add, costs me money. I wish people would pay more, but that is wishfull thinking. The best a campground could hope for by adding Wifi would be around $1.00 per day and sites are not 100% full everyday. Also, costs for wifi greatly exceed the monthly service costs. Equipment, time spent on technical support etc. far exceeds any monthly service fee. I have posted several times regarding WiFi costs and it exceeds several thousand dollars per month when spread only over the months we are open. Any park owner will tell you it is the biggest source of complaints on their campground. I can't wait for it to go the way of the 8 track tape.

 

WIFI is not profitable for an RV Park, and I see no way that it will ever be. I have spent over $14,000 out of pocket in the last 7 years just for equipment and installation. This does not include the monthly ongoing fees for DSL service from my phone company ($160.00/mo., previously $200.00/mo. for satellite signal through Hughes net). The only reason for an RV Park to offer WIFI is to attract customers who would go somewhere else if we didn't have WIFI, but it will never be cash flow positive even if we charged what the previous poster said.

Only about 30% of our customers use the WIFI (Less than that in the Summer). If we raised the rate $4.95/day as the previous poster suggested, we would lose more business than we do by using a third party provider to provide a very high quality service to those that wish to use it for a fee and keeping our rates as low as possible for the 70% that do not use it. With the third party provider we receive 30% of what they receive for providing the service. The last quarter, I received approx. $650 in commissions vs. $480.00 for the ongoing monthly charges for the DSL signal from the phone company, a "profit" of $170.00 over the three month period. I am 62 years old - you can do the math as to whether I will live long enough to recoop my $14,000 outlay for equipment and and installation over the rest of my lifetime at $170/quarter.

I realize that some of you may not beleive my 30% usage figure, because from reading the posts on this site it would seem that everyone uses a computer and WIFI while they are travelling. Obviously, 100% of the people on this site use their computers, but it is equally obvious that 100% of non-computer users who travel do not post on this site. Also, with a quality provider, I do not have to worry about tech support 24 hours a day. As a retiree from a previous career, I have no intention of getting up in the middle if the night to answer a WIFI problem for a late night overseas stock trader (yes we have them - and they appreciate the 24 hr. tech support).

Doug

 

QUOTE(Parkview @ Jun 12 2009, 12:24 PM) [snapback]16934[/snapback]

WIFI is not profitable for an RV Park, and I see no way that it will ever be. I have spent over $14,000 out of pocket in the last 7 years just for equipment and installation. This does not include the monthly ongoing fees for DSL service from my phone company ($160.00/mo., previously $200.00/mo. for satellite signal through Hughes net). The only reason for an RV Park to offer WIFI is to attract customers who would go somewhere else if we didn't have WIFI, but it will never be cash flow positive even if we charged what the previous poster said.

Only about 30% of our customers use the WIFI (Less than that in the Summer). If we raised the rate $4.95/day as the previous poster suggested, we would lose more business than we do by using a third party provider to provide a very high quality service to those that wish to use it for a fee and keeping our rates as low as possible for the 70% that do not use it. With the third party provider we receive 30% of what they receive for providing the service. The last quarter, I received approx. $650 in commissions vs. $480.00 for the ongoing monthly charges for the DSL signal from the phone company, a "profit" of $170.00 over the three month period. I am 62 years old - you can do the math as to whether I will live long enough to recoop my $14,000 outlay for equipment and and installation over the rest of my lifetime at $170/quarter.

I realize that some of you may not beleive my 30% usage figure, because from reading the posts on this site it would seem that everyone uses a computer and WIFI while they are travelling. Obviously, 100% of the people on this site use their computers, but it is equally obvious that 100% of non-computer users who travel do not post on this site. Also, with a quality provider, I do not have to worry about tech support 24 hours a day. As a retiree from a previous career, I have no intention of getting up in the middle if the night to answer a WIFI problem for a late night overseas stock trader (yes we have them - and they appreciate the 24 hr. tech support).

Doug


Interesting your statement and I have to agree with you that only a percentage of campers use the computer but this service is becoming almost a necessity, more and more, every years that goes by.
In my specific, case the internet service has almost replaced the telephone; it is true that I am retired but I still love to keep monitoring, as you say, the stock market, many of us have children, friends etc.. away and feel comfortable in keeping in touch with them; furthermore, with the today’s technology we can make an audio/visual contact all over the world at not extra expense by using the Internet.
In conclusion, yes, I would prefer receiving the HIfI to my trailer but if not available, this would not discourage me to book my winter staying in a campsite where the facility is located in a specific room of the camp (provided that the place is not miles away). B)
I have to be honest with you, if I have to choose between two campsites, one with internet facility and the other not, I will choose the one with the service.
Now dealing with the other part of the medal, I see your point as camp owners, the service might be a nuisance but in a non to distant future, this issue will become part of the required service for campsites and in my opinion, it will be almost important like a water and sewage at the trailer’s side and failure to prepare yourself for the coming future it might loose your competitive advantage versus the other camp across the road.

 

I am again stepping into a topic about which I am "challenged", so you can laugh if this is really stupid. It occurred to me that before Wi-Fi and cell phones there were a lot of parks that had phone connections at their utility pedestals. Likewise most RV's had a phone jack installed inside. The idea was that you could get phone service right in your RV. We even carried a land line type phone with us the first few years we traveled. Usually the phone hook up was for a separate fee. We may have used this service once when it was free, but I can see that (before cell phones) this would be a convenient service for full timers or snowbirds who stayed in one place for a long time.

Now here's the stupid question. Why can't parks add phone lines (or use the existing ones) to the utility box and then provide DSL service? I do not begin to know the ins and outs of what that would involve or if it is feasible, but if it were possible it would provide internet service right at each RV and might eliminate some of the problems (weak signal) associated with Wi-Fi--although I am sure DSL has its own unique set of problems which may cause you just as many new headaches.

Ok, I'm ready to hear why this won't work. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm just assuming all of you are much more knowledgeable about this than I am, and if it would work you would already be doing it.

 

QUOTE(Texasrvers @ Jun 12 2009, 08:23 PM) [snapback]16944[/snapback]

I am again stepping into a topic about which I am "challenged", so you can laugh if this is really stupid. It occurred to me that before Wi-Fi and cell phones there were a lot of parks that had phone connections at their utility pedestals. Likewise most RV's had a phone jack installed inside. The idea was that you could get phone service right in your RV. Usually the phone hook up was for a separate fee. We may have used this service once when it was free, but I can see that (before cell phones) this would be a convenient service for full timers or snowbirds who stayed in one place for a long time.

Now here's the stupid question. Why can't parks add phone lines (or use the existing ones) to the utility box and then provide DSL service? I do not begin to know the ins and outs of what that would involve or if it is feasible, but if it were possible it would provide internet service right at each RV and might eliminate some of the problems (weak signal) associated with Wi-Fi--although I am sure DSL has its own unique set of problems which may cause you just as many new headaches.

Ok, I'm ready to hear why this won't work. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm just assuming all of you are much more knowledgeable about this than I am, and if it would work you would already be doing it.

I know that most parks do not have phone lines throughout the campground, mine included. Also, DSL service requires a modem, so RVs without the modem would be out of luck (I don't know if all DSL modems are universally compatible). Finally, I am reasonably sure the phone company would charge for each line (you couldn't have a single phone line serve 100 connections) and at $50.00 or so for each line per month it would be cost prohibitive (100 sites x $50.00 x 12 months = $60,000 per year).

 

OK........., I knew there had to be some reason(s). Thanks.

 

Beg to differ! Gilgal Oasis RV Park in Sequim, WA has DSL service. You have to pay $20 refundable deposit, they give you a cable, you hook it up. Worked good, except I had to run the cable through my window......

JJ

 

QUOTE(DXSMac @ Jun 13 2009, 09:57 AM) [snapback]16951[/snapback]

Beg to differ! Gilgal Oasis RV Park in Sequim, WA has DSL service. You have to pay $20 refundable deposit, they give you a cable, you hook it up. Worked good, except I had to run the cable through my window......

JJ

Don't quite know what you are differing about. It does take a special connection to connect. Just because this park chose to have those hookups, doesn't mean that it would be practical for other parks. I noticed this is a very small park within a town. That would imply a relatively small area to cover with the wiring. Again, as I mentioned previously, tethering a computer to a cable doesn't work for many guests. What if there were two or 4 computers in the RV that needed to be connected? Was there 4 plugs available at the site if necessary? Finally, the wiring for the DSL was in place, as I stated, most RV parks do not have telephone lines run to all the RV sites. so the installation expenses would be very high. Again, I have no idea if it would be feasible from the phone company point of view. I do know they would require multiple services, you can only run so many connections per phone line. It is not even an option where I am since DSL is not available.

 

I'm very sorry to say that I free wifi is the way to go. Perhaps you can include it in the fee and take $3 or $5 off if one doesn't need a coupon code. I just spent $8 for wifi in a place and the service barely reached my rig. I stayed with free wifi in one place but it didn't reach my rig (I was in the front row) and I had to work in the patio area in a light snow flurry. Unfortunately, more and more people need the wifi (I am currently doing this from an RV park, actually). Family wants to keep tabs, work is done from home computers, even local eateries email reservation confirmation (all of this has occurred on this 3-day trip I am currently on). I understand people may ask for assistence, write a well-written step-by-step document with a few screen shot pix to show what to expect. Take you laptop around from time to time and make sure spots are covered. If you HAVE to advertise, make it clear. It was not clear where I had to pay the $8. In fact, on the phone we were told free and reaching over the whole park which was certainly not true. A disclaimer like "third party paid wifi "Nomad" is available for $X a day or $X a week". Best wishes. Your decision to go wifi is wise, now to arrange the business.

 

Wow, this is really getting tossed around. I didn't realize how expensive this is for park owners.

I have to say WiFi figures in to our decision when making a reservation. The things that are most irritating to us, and for which we will comment on when reviewing a campground are
1) Having very slow or hit & miss reception when we opt to pay extra for it. We feel it would be like paying extra for showers that are dirty, broken, or have no hot water.
2) Being told during the reservation process that WiFi is provided (free or otherwise) and then when we arrive being put in a spot that has none or virtually no service.

I agree that having well written instructions for connecting to the WiFi is a great idea. During our most recent trip we had 6 places with WiFi and no two had the same procedures or "user experience". It can be very confusing sometimes, and I'm pretty fluent with PC technology! I like the sound of the Park mentioned earlier in this thread that had a toll free number for tech support. I rarely talk to the office staff when I encounter trouble since they typically know very little about technical issues, and I assume they already know the service is poor.

I wonder if it's possible for a park to have a section set aside for No Wi-Fi in the same fashion as some do with no Sewer hook-ups. When we know we won't be dumping we will often opt for water and power only thereby saving a couple dollars per night. For RVers that don't want WiFi they could choose a site with no WiFi service and similarly save a bit.

I also wouldn't mind a comfortable room where outlets are available and reception is top notch. Although I prefer using my laptop in the trailer, when reception is rotten and I really need to be on-line, I'd be happy to use something better, assuming it's comfortable. On our last trip we were put in a spot right in front of the office and still had rotten service. We were told we could sit on the "NICE big covered front porch", well let me say that 38 degrees, wind and raining wasn't at all NICE!

As others have said, and I agree, being told truthfully what to expect is the best possible situation. I'll do the math and make my decision. If my expectations aren't met reasonable well, I'll take that into consideration on my next trip and let others know what I experienced.

By the way, I really applaud the person doing research. I hope it all works well for you!