QUOTE(Kirk @ Oct 14 2010, 10:12 PM) [snapback]24599[/snapback] Now I must disagree with this opinion. We in the "gigantic RVs" almost never use the showers or restrooms at all, while you and your family do. The park staff does not need to clean the shower or toilets that we use, but they do yours. Labor is a much larger expense than utilities. I have work camped in a few campgrounds now and will disagree with you. I have a 45 foot fifth wheel and my 4 kids , wife and I never use the parks restrooms, showers or laundry room. The last park we were in had over 400 sites , was about 80% full and only 1 other familly besides us in it this winter. more than half of them used the showers and bathrooms every day and they all had big rigs. I cleaned 4 sets of bath houses this winter so if anyone in the park would know it was me.
QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ Oct 2 2010, 05:17 PM) [snapback]24403[/snapback] It is a very common practice to either limit the number of guests in a site or charge for extra people and vehicles over a certain amount. Surely you realize that extra people do create extra expenses for the campground and increases the wear and tear on the facilities. And I don't have a problem with them collecting more than it actually costs because they are providing a service and deserve to be compensated more than just their costs. You have to pay extra for all those children when you go out to eat, when you go to an amusement park, a ballgame or most anywhere else and they don't give you the extra admissions or meals at the cost of the food or the utilities costs of an extra guest. They get full price because the additional people are using the services of the restaurant, ballpark or amusement park. A hotel would not allow you to cram all 9 people into one hotel room and I don't see where it is unreasonable for an RV park to charge for extra guests. Also, most all RV parks have their facilities sized for an average amount of guests. A park with 100 sites would get awfully crowded if every one of the 100 RVs had nine people in them like yours does. Things like restrooms, pools, laundries etc would probably not be adequately sized to meet that kind of demand. I have stayed in parks where large family groups were also in residence and when the group pulled in you could count on the restrooms and showers being unavailable for an hour or two as they would take up all the facilities and have a line of kids out the doors. They paid their fees and it was their right, but it is still kind of rude for one family to monopolize an entire bathhouse. I have to agree with you, a campground is a business and the owner or administrator must make a profit or it fail the purpose of going into this business. if the camp policy states 2 persons or two persons and up to two children it means that the cost for running that spot is based on such occupancy, I don’t see a problem for an extra charge for any addition to the number of people indicated.
What ever a owner charges is their right but it is not fair to assume because someone has 2, 3 or 4 kids that they are costing the campground more. So many of the parks that cater to seniors in Florida have entertainment, bingo, rally halls for playing cards, ect. So to say that there is only 2 of us and 5 of you that we use less in stupid. I see more seniors in big busses use park amenities and think they own them than families in florida. I have cleaned bath houses in campgrounds that were almost all seniors and I have cleaned them in State parks where they were full of families and I can tell you the seniors made worse messes on average. I went to a KOA in Starke Florida that was reasonable price for a monthly rate plus electric. When I said I had kids they wanted $40 a month more per kid. now how can they possibly say they are family friendly when I'm paying my own electric. Needles to say I didn't stay there and I wouldn't ever recommend anyone with kids too.
We are the "typical" family of 4- 2 adults and 2 children. Now that my children are getting older, we make our campground decisions on whether they charge extra for kids. I am not going to pay $10 extra on top of the $50-$60 we are paying per night. If the campground has fancy amenities that children will use, it is already reflected in the higher prices for a more upscale campground. I can always find a different campground that suits my needs that doesn't charge for the first 2 children. I sympathize with the OP because most everywhere, even if they don't charge for the first 2 they charge after that. We choose to camp for our vacations because it is more economical in that we can prepare our own food and not go out to restaurants. Other than that we are usually out on the economy, sight seeing etc. We come back and use the pool in the afternoon. I dont' see how a child can use $5 each worth of resources at a campground. And like a previous poster said, they will more than make up for it with the money they spend at the game room and snack bar. And whether one showers in the restrooms or in the rig, the water is being used. It's the propane for the hot water that is at issue. Also, I always bathe my children in our camper for the tub but use the campground showers. I like a loooong hot shower. Hot water seems to me to be the only thing that is not a fixed cost. One campground we go to charges .25 for the showers. I don't mind paying the .50 for a nice hot shower. And not my husband has started using the restrooms as well. So our kids are not using them but we are and I always have even before we had kids. So there!
QUOTE(rkw99 @ Aug 5 2011, 08:11 AM) [snapback]27091[/snapback] We are the "typical" family of 4- 2 adults and 2 children. Now that my children are getting older, we make our campground decisions on whether they charge extra for kids. I am not going to pay $10 extra on top of the $50-$60 we are paying per night. If the campground has fancy amenities that children will use, it is already reflected in the higher prices for a more upscale campground. I can always find a different campground that suits my needs that doesn't charge for the first 2 children. I sympathize with the OP because most everywhere, even if they don't charge for the first 2 they charge after that. We choose to camp for our vacations because it is more economical in that we can prepare our own food and not go out to restaurants. Other than that we are usually out on the economy, sight seeing etc. We come back and use the pool in the afternoon. I dont' see how a child can use $5 each worth of resources at a campground. And like a previous poster said, they will more than make up for it with the money they spend at the game room and snack bar. And whether one showers in the restrooms or in the rig, the water is being used. It's the propane for the hot water that is at issue. Also, I always bathe my children in our camper for the tub but use the campground showers. I like a loooong hot shower. Hot water seems to me to be the only thing that is not a fixed cost. One campground we go to charges .25 for the showers. I don't mind paying the .50 for a nice hot shower. And not my husband has started using the restrooms as well. So our kids are not using them but we are and I always have even before we had kids. So there! I see your point and cannot deny your logic but I can only agree with your complaint only if these additional costs were not advertised or kept hidden until the moment of payment. Going to an RV camp is just like of going shopping, namely, before entertaining the trip you should call and find out what would be the charge and then decide accordingly. I agree with your breakdown you presented regarding your children’s cost but that it reflects your own children, an other family may be careless and misuse the facilities, the camp administration cannot prescribe a specific cost of your children and the cost of some one else because it would be one hell of discrimination. Unfortunately the good is going to pay for the bad; I make you an example, I am a 73 years old Canadian that spends every winter in Florida, I am perfectly healthy but notwithstanding that I still have to pay almost $ 1,000 as an emergency Medicare because of my age , I tried to complaint and I was told that I belong to a high risk age and there are more possibility that I have to use medical need than a 20 years old. Do you think is fair ? I never had a problem and I am still penalized because the majority of people of my age incurred in certain needs and this is exactly what is happening to you , you are paying for a negative behaviors of others. I am sorry, I didn’t want to patronize you but I understand your feeling but you have to understand also the resort management position.
QUOTE(rkw99 @ Aug 5 2011, 09:11 AM) [snapback]27091[/snapback] We are the "typical" family of 4- 2 adults and 2 children. Now that my children are getting older, we make our campground decisions on whether they charge extra for kids. I am not going to pay $10 extra on top of the $50-$60 we are paying per night. If the campground has fancy amenities that children will use, it is already reflected in the higher prices for a more upscale campground. I can always find a different campground that suits my needs that doesn't charge for the first 2 children. I sympathize with the OP because most everywhere, even if they don't charge for the first 2 they charge after that. We choose to camp for our vacations because it is more economical in that we can prepare our own food and not go out to restaurants. Other than that we are usually out on the economy, sight seeing etc. We come back and use the pool in the afternoon. I dont' see how a child can use $5 each worth of resources at a campground. And like a previous poster said, they will more than make up for it with the money they spend at the game room and snack bar. And whether one showers in the restrooms or in the rig, the water is being used. It's the propane for the hot water that is at issue. Also, I always bathe my children in our camper for the tub but use the campground showers. I like a loooong hot shower. Hot water seems to me to be the only thing that is not a fixed cost. One campground we go to charges .25 for the showers. I don't mind paying the .50 for a nice hot shower. And not my husband has started using the restrooms as well. So our kids are not using them but we are and I always have even before we had kids. So there! A group of four people will use more of everything than a group of two. More water, more electricity, more wear and tear on facilities etc. Parks pay for the water that is at your site as well as the water that is used in the showerhouse. Same with the electricity. Cost of those services is irrelevant. Restaurants don't provide the meal for the first diner at regular price and the rest of the people at the table get their food at cost. Each person at Disneyworld are charged an admission, not the first person in the group charged and the rest let in free. And they don't take into consideration whether or not someone in the group actually intends to ride the rides or how much they intend to eat when they set their prices. It is not a matter of level of usage. Businesses do not have the luxury of having ESP to actually know what a patron is going to use or not use when they accept their business. That fact you and your family may or may not use a park's restroom, shower, pool, etc is really not an issue.
QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ Aug 5 2011, 10:59 AM) [snapback]27093[/snapback] A group of four people will use more of everything than a group of two. More water, more electricity, more wear and tear on facilities etc. Parks pay for the water that is at your site as well as the water that is used in the showerhouse. Same with the electricity. Cost of those services is irrelevant. Restaurants don't provide the meal for the first diner at regular price and the rest of the people at the table get their food at cost. Each person at Disneyworld are charged an admission, not the first person in the group charged and the rest let in free. And they don't take into consideration whether or not someone in the group actually intends to ride the rides or how much they intend to eat when they set their prices. It is not a matter of level of usage. Businesses do not have the luxury of having ESP to actually know what a patron is going to use or not use when they accept their business. That fact you and your family may or may not use a park's restroom, shower, pool, etc is really not an issue. Very good examples there. Business are not there to save people money but are there to actually show earnings. Sure it's nice if you can save money and we are always happy to try to help with that but without earnings businesses can't exist. If my boss doesn't make money I can't have a job because they can't afford to pay me. Without someone to run the park it would have to close. We just had someone check in and, after the fact, let me know he has 4 kids and 4 dogs. I was going to let the extra fees go until I went to the laundry room and found the mess they made there. Then I went to the bathhouse and found grape soda spilled all over the sink and the grape stains on the bench there. Also, I found a mess they left at the pool yesterday. Yes, I know for a fact it was this family. Today they informed me they would be staying at least a month and I had to add the extra fees. I did cut them in half to be nice but my work load has definitely grown with them here.
QUOTE(MCRANE @ Jun 10 2011, 09:28 AM) [snapback]26377[/snapback] I have work camped in a few campgrounds now and will disagree with you. I have a 45 foot fifth wheel and my 4 kids , wife and I never use the parks restrooms, showers or laundry room. The last park we were in had over 400 sites , was about 80% full and only 1 other familly besides us in it this winter. more than half of them used the showers and bathrooms every day and they all had big rigs. I cleaned 4 sets of bath houses this winter so if anyone in the park would know it was me. I took his quote to mean that since he doesn't use the restrooms, etc., no money is "wasted" on him. He is 100% correct. I'm the same. Just out of curiousity, what is the brand of your 45' fiver????
QUOTE(abbygolden @ Aug 5 2011, 08:35 PM) [snapback]27104[/snapback] I took his quote to mean that since he doesn't use the restrooms, etc., no money is "wasted" on him. He is 100% correct. I'm the same. Just out of curiousity, what is the brand of your 45' fiver???? Kz inferno ,44' 9". I'm still costing the park . But I'm just not buying the I have a big rig and there is only two of us so I'm the perfect guest and everyone else isn't crap.
QUOTE(dbnck @ Oct 10 2010, 03:23 PM) [snapback]24565[/snapback] You evidently haven't stayed at the state parks in Texas--they charge the camping fee plus a daily entry fee for each person. The same attitude is practiced in various State Parks in the South West. Further, if one stays in a camping ground in a National Park, one has payed entrance fee before even entering the camping ground, too.
QUOTE(dalsgal @ Aug 5 2011, 03:35 PM) [snapback]27103[/snapback] Very good examples there. Business are not there to save people money but are there to actually show earnings. Sure it's nice if you can save money and we are always happy to try to help with that but without earnings businesses can't exist. If my boss doesn't make money I can't have a job because they can't afford to pay me. Without someone to run the park it would have to close. We just had someone check in and, after the fact, let me know he has 4 kids and 4 dogs. I was going to let the extra fees go until I went to the laundry room and found the mess they made there. Then I went to the bathhouse and found grape soda spilled all over the sink and the grape stains on the bench there. Also, I found a mess they left at the pool yesterday. Yes, I know for a fact it was this family. Today they informed me they would be staying at least a month and I had to add the extra fees. I did cut them in half to be nice but my work load has definitely grown with them here. Dalsgal, you sound like a very nice person and I am sure that your employer wants to maximize his profits, but by taking in this family you describe for a month you are making the stays of all your other guests a little less pleasant. The other guests have to be around these messes until you clean them up. I seriously doubt you can/will follow them around 24/7 being their personal maid. IF you have guests that might have extended their stays but don't, returned in the future but decided to look elsewhere, or decide to write an unfavorable review that keeps another dozen customers away all because you decided to take pity on a group that do not have the common courtesy to clean up after themselves the park is losing money in the long run. You can also be sure the situation will get worse, not better, as they get more comfortable and entrenched. In my bank, we had an unwritten policy of "Your first loss is your best loss". What that means is when you have a problem either solve it, or take your loss because it will not heal itself and your losses will grow the longer you kick the can down the road. (BTW, this is a lesson the government should learn, but that is another story). Finally, you are not doing them any favors enabling their behavior by cleaning up after them. Maybe a little tough love is needed. Telling them they cannot stay because they are pigs my start the process of making them responsible. Sometimes it is in the best interests of everyone for business to sever ties with some customers. A little painful, yes, but in the long run everyone may be better for it.
QUOTE(kcmoedoe @ Aug 6 2011, 08:52 AM) [snapback]27109[/snapback] Dalsgal, you sound like a very nice person and I am sure that your employer wants to maximize his profits, but by taking in this family you describe for a month you are making the stays of all your other guests a little less pleasant. The other guests have to be around these messes until you clean them up. I seriously doubt you can/will follow them around 24/7 being their personal maid. IF you have guests that might have extended their stays but don't, returned in the future but decided to look elsewhere, or decide to write an unfavorable review that keeps another dozen customers away all because you decided to take pity on a group that do not have the common courtesy to clean up after themselves the park is losing money in the long run. You can also be sure the situation will get worse, not better, as they get more comfortable and entrenched. In my bank, we had an unwritten policy of "Your first loss is your best loss". What that means is when you have a problem either solve it, or take your loss because it will not heal itself and your losses will grow the longer you kick the can down the road. (BTW, this is a lesson the government should learn, but that is another story). Finally, you are not doing them any favors enabling their behavior by cleaning up after them. Maybe a little tough love is needed. Telling them they cannot stay because they are pigs my start the process of making them responsible. Sometimes it is in the best interests of everyone for business to sever ties with some customers. A little painful, yes, but in the long run everyone may be better for it. Well spoken words, I agree with you 100 %, a business enterprise has to be friendly and polite but when the behaviors of certain people is unethical will reduce the value of the place , the best solution is , as far as I am concerned , kick them out before considered a dump by the rest of the RVers. I know that the economy is poor right now but keeping these kind of people in order to earn a few dollars will loose a thousands in a long run.
I understand what you are saying but we get very few overnighters where we are located. Right now all our residents are "permanent" and if I turn these folks out I will lose 2 other rigs that are co-workers of this man. If you drove in this park you would never know that these are permanent campers because our rules require that it be kept neat, clean and no stuff piled around or under the campers. I am lucky that, for the most part, the wife and kids stay inside until the father comes home from work. I just found out that the family will be leaving in 2 weeks and it will just be the father here. Fortunately we are a small park and I'm a nosy old woman so I am able to keep a close eye on things.
QUOTE(AngelB @ Oct 2 2010, 05:52 AM) [snapback]24387[/snapback] Am I the only one very irritated by this practice? We have 7 kids (ages from 1 to 17) and had camped our way from Vt to AZ. All but the dumpiest places charged us between $5-10 extra PER kid! Are we really going to use that much electricity and water in one night to warrant this? (we're really eco-friendly but thats besides the point) Anyone else travel with kids and found exceptions to this rule? Not so much use of campsite utilities but probably more use of the campground in general, with that said we got back last month from a resort campground..we paid extra for our two adult boys, dog & cable. Ended up paying just under $100 per night which included good sams and our site wasn't even premium! Don't like it just as much as you do, but I have to keep the whole family happy. B) Mike
Last night was a perfect example, for us, of why we would tend to agree with campgrounds charging extra to discourage large family groups from using a campsite. We are in, admittedly, a campground with lots of family type attractions, lakes, pool, mini golf, outdoor movies, etc. and during the weekends it fills. We are here as there are limited choices in the area for longer stays. Next to us is a family group with a small travel trailer and two tents. I count 8 children and 2 adults. At 8:45 pm last night we had a cornhole game, with the cheering and laughing that goes with it, going on within 15 feet of our motorhome side. An adult (Dad?) and an teenage boy were throwing a baseball along the road with the attendant swoosh/splat noises of hard thrown baseballs. Two other children were playing a pick up soccer game with the ball once or twice getting loose and hitting our car and motorhome. A gaggle of young (barely teen) girls was at the campfire with the giggles, laughter, and omg that girls this age are prone to, and a radio/cd player is playing some kind of kid popular music loudly enough for most of the group to hear. Noone doing anything wrong but still too loud/active for us to sit outside and read/talk as we would have liked. After dark we had the squeals and shouts that go with smores and games at the campfires. We, on the other hand, had trouble hearing a sporting event we wanted to watch on tv. This morning we watched as 10 people walked to the bathhouses for their morning ablutions, and as we walked our dogs noticed the line to use the bath house. I am glad this family next to us is able to have their fun, and I reiterate they did nothing wrong. A group this size is, however, just because of it's size, disruptive and imo, should pay more.
Is the issue that the CG charges per child? or is it that some pay more for the use of facilities than others. If you have a family of 9, it costs more I don't care what you are doing, and you no doubt are used to that. To me this issue is the seeming "bait and switch" on the price of the overnight stay. If the adverised rate is $30 per night and people cost extra, then they better say that somewhere in the reservation process, the CG website, or in the review. Because when we comparison shop, and we all do it, I want to know what my total overnight cost is going to be and I can weigh that versus the amenities offered. Charging for more than two campers is not an uncommon practice, it just needs to be mentioned upfront,
QUOTE(joez @ Aug 7 2011, 07:35 AM) [snapback]27116[/snapback] Last night was a perfect example, for us, of why we would tend to agree with campgrounds charging extra to discourage large family groups from using a campsite. We are in, admittedly, a campground with lots of family type attractions, lakes, pool, mini golf, outdoor movies, etc. and during the weekends it fills. We are here as there are limited choices in the area for longer stays. Next to us is a family group with a small travel trailer and two tents. I count 8 children and 2 adults. At 8:45 pm last night we had a cornhole game, with the cheering and laughing that goes with it, going on within 15 feet of our motorhome side. An adult (Dad?) and an teenage boy were throwing a baseball along the road with the attendant swoosh/splat noises of hard thrown baseballs. Two other children were playing a pick up soccer game with the ball once or twice getting loose and hitting our car and motorhome. A gaggle of young (barely teen) girls was at the campfire with the giggles, laughter, and omg that girls this age are prone to, and a radio/cd player is playing some kind of kid popular music loudly enough for most of the group to hear. Noone doing anything wrong but still too loud/active for us to sit outside and read/talk as we would have liked. After dark we had the squeals and shouts that go with smores and games at the campfires. We, on the other hand, had trouble hearing a sporting event we wanted to watch on tv. This morning we watched as 10 people walked to the bathhouses for their morning ablutions, and as we walked our dogs noticed the line to use the bath house. I am glad this family next to us is able to have their fun, and I reiterate they did nothing wrong. A group this size is, however, just because of it's size, disruptive and imo, should pay more. Ha, ha, ha, I see your feeling and honestly I would be like you in similar situation, however, there are several points that you didn’t clarify (1) is your camp reserved to adult only or not, if not and the group was behaving properly, I don't see much ground for complaints. Yes you mentioned about the ball was hitting your trailer and the smoke disturbing you, I sympathize but as camp ground smoke is part of the outdoor and it would be difficult for you to go and file a complaint with the management because the ball came in your property two or three times. However, if they were to loud after a certain hour it would be good ground for asking them to quitter down. (2) If you are a snow bird and spending months at the place like me, there are always a specific place for a long staying people and I would try to fit myself in between two of them because, in general, snow birds are aged people and “GENERRALY “ people that can afford to spend months away are retired with a reasonable income and, in general, with some better behavior. (3) If items 1 & 2 are not applicable, I would look for a new resort for adult only or have a nice word with the management to give you a corner where week-enders are not allowed. I am a snow bird and in the past I had a similar problems, namely, week-enders coming over and at the time disrespectful like the own the world, we had a meeting with the management and a special sector of the camp was reserved for people long staying, yes, we till have problems at the time since there is always the wild one but when they exceed I saw them been kicked out within hours.
QUOTE If items 1 & 2 are not applicable, I would look for a new resort for adult only or have a nice word with the management to give you a corner where week-enders are not allowed. Unfortunately we are in an area (central IN) that is short season/weekend camper/lots of seasonals. There are not the kind of long term stay parks available like in Florida, Texas, Arizona where there are adults only or long term stay parts set aside in the park. A park in this area would be foolish to cater to the few of us who are not weekenders. We are here because the grandkids live nearby and if Grandma don't get her grandkid fix each summer she ain't pleasant to be around. If there were a sunbird resort for us to stay in we would. My point is not really to complain. There was nothing to complain about. They did nothing wrong except for the occasional ball against the vehicle. Ten people or so in a smaller area and using the bath houses at about the same time puts a strain on things. When the whole crew went to the pool things got crowded in a hurry. When the whole crew went fishing a whole fishing dock was suddenly filled. Unless there are additional charges this group of ten gets use of the same amenities as the "normal" group of three or four that typically occupy the space. My point really was that I can understand campgrounds charging extra for larger family groups. In my mind that is their way of discouraging this kind of business, or encouraging them to rent more than one space. I grew up with seven siblings. When we camped we almost always were forced to get two spaces and take more than one vehicle. One site and one vehicle just couldn't handle our gang and all the gear. I remember my father bitching about how unfair he thought it was that he was forced to spend double. My mother would just smile and ask him which children he would like to sell to someone else so he could get by with one site and one vehicle.
