The Brains In Washington Have Done It Again

QUOTE(Big Ben @ Mar 22 2008, 09:47 PM) [snapback]10853[/snapback]

There seems to be more than a little confussion here. We were talking about HD, and that is what the converter box is for. If you don't have a HD TV you will need a converter box or you will not be watching TV.


Yup, there is confusion alright. The above is not correct. We're talking digital. That's what the converter box is for. To convert an analog signal to digital. Nothing at all to do with HD. The converter box is NOT for HD. The box is for digital converstion. HD and digital are 2 separate things.
The old signals that came out on the airwaves was/is analog. In Feb 2009 it will be digital. The conversion box changes the digital signal to analog so older TVs can still be used.
If your current TV is digital then you won't need the converter box.
Whether the TV is HD or not doesn't matter. HD is the type of screen quality your TV has. Digital is the signal that comes over the airways. Converting the digital signal to analog is what the converter box is for.

 

I have been a member here for just one week. I like it! Thanks for making it available to serious campers of all types. I especially like the adult content of the postings. I'm no prude (where've you heard that before) but it's refreshing to chat with people who have a common interest and who show so much respect to one another. Keep it up folks and Happy Easter to all. See ya on the road. Keep and eye out for the "Fleetwood Mac".

 

Here's how I understand it. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

If you have an analog TV (generally the older ones), and if you receive your signal over the airways then you must have a converter box to watch programs on that set after Feb. 2009. The converter box will convert the digital signal that is being broadcast back to analog so that the analog TV can display it. This is the minimum you have to do to keep watching TV and then only if your TV is analog and if you use an antennae. If your TV can already receive a digital signal you will not need to do anything. Also if you subscribe to a cable or satellite service that service makes the conversion for you, and you will not need to do anything--even to analog TV's.

After you are receiving a digital signal you must then decide whether you want to view it in standard definition or high definition (HD) format. If standard definition is ok for you then you don't have to do anything else. Your converted analog TV and your digital ready TV will show programs in standard definition. But if you want high definition you have to get a high definition TV. Apparently you can watch a channel that is in HD format on a converted analog TV or a digital TV, but it will not be as good as having an HD TV.

Am I right so far? Now let's go a little further. Even if you have an HD TV you may not get to watch all programs in HD format. A particular station must broadcast in HD before your HD TV can receive and display it. As I understand it some stations now broadcast in both standard definition and high definition format. Both digital and HD signals can be received with an antennae over the airways, but you must have an HD TV to watch the program in HD format.

Also if you receive your signal through a cable or satellite service you may have another problem. Take our case for example. We subscribe to a cable service. That cable service takes the HD signals from the channels it markets and assigns them to a cable channel number that is different from the standard format channel number. The cable company then sells an HD package that you must pay for if you want to watch programs in HD. We have both analog and digital TV's hooked up to our cable service. We do not have a converter box on the analog TVs and we receive the signal just fine. We do not have an HD TV so there is no need to subscribe to the HD package. However, even if we did have an HD TV we still would not get the HD format unless we paid the cable service for for their HD package.

This is a very confusing situation. I hope I have my facts straight, and that I haven't passed along any misinformation. I also hope this has helped shed a little light on what you may need to do concerning the conversion.

 

Forget my earlier post about the stupidity of our government issuing 90 day expiration dates on the Converter Box $40 coupons, and my statement that I had never seen anything as stupid. From today's news:

1. The government is now having US Passports printed in Europe, and then sent to Malaysia for encoding with microchips. Duhhhhhhhh! Do you think this will end well?

2. The government is now investigating the firm that got a $300 million contract to supply arms and ammunition to our allies in Afghanistan. Seems the arms they are shipping to our allies are old, outmoded, and broken, and the ammunition they are shipping is 40 year old useless ammunition they bought off the Russians for virtually nothing. But the real clincher is that the firm to which the buttheads awarded this $300 million contract doesn't even have an office, but operates out of a post office box in Ft. Lauderdale, FL. The president is a 22 year old guy and the Executive Vice President of the firm is a massage therapist.

I don't believe this represents the depth of their stupidity. I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

QUOTE(Texasrvers @ Mar 23 2008, 11:34 AM) [snapback]10862[/snapback]

Also if you subscribe to a cable or satellite service that service makes the conversion for you, and you will not need to do anything--even to analog TV's.



I beg to differ on that. What you said above is what we are all being told. But in reality, I'm calling "Mommy mommy the emperor isn't wearing clothes."

I have a TV that gets both standard and digital. I also have an analog TV. Further, I do subscribe to cable. I was watching the Digital TV on standard until my cable company told me what channels had moved to digital. So, I changed the input to digital and rescanned. Guess what, I got three extra channels, plus a crapload of "audio" channels. Now, according to what you said above (which we are all being told....), those three extra channels (I don't care about the audio channels....) should show up on my analog TV because I have cable. BUT THEY DON'T! I'm afraid to call the cable company for fear that maybe it's a mistake.....

That's why I ordered a coupon! Even though I have cable! And someone else on these boards already said they had their coupon, and I haven't gotten mine yet!

JJ

QUOTE(Beastdriver @ Mar 27 2008, 05:21 PM) [snapback]10918[/snapback]

Forget my earlier post about the stupidity of our government issuing 90 day expiration dates on the Converter Box $40 coupons, and my statement that I had never seen anything as stupid. From today's news:

1. The government is now having US Passports printed in Europe, and then sent to Malaysia for encoding with microchips. Duhhhhhhhh! Do you think this will end well?

2. The government is now investigating the firm that got a $300 million contract to supply arms and ammunition to our allies in Afghanistan. Seems the arms they are shipping to our allies are old, outmoded, and broken, and the ammunition they are shipping is 40 year old useless ammunition they bought off the Russians for virtually nothing. But the real clincher is that the firm to which the buttheads awarded this $300 million contract doesn't even have an office, but operates out of a post office box in Ft. Lauderdale, FL. The president is a 22 year old guy and the Executive Vice President of the firm is a massage therapist.

I don't believe this represents the depth of their stupidity. I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop.



Oh crap. I do not want my passport sent out of the United States when I renew.

As for the arms and ammunition, if you watch the movie "Sum of All Fears" (Morgan Freeman, one of my favorites, although Ben Affleck was the star....) they kind of hinted at this.....

Um, I was a "Fed" for 25 years. I know what the contracting procedures are. From what you describe, it sounds to me like someone didn't properly do a "Pre-Award Survey" or if they did, it was slipshod.

What really gets me is.... if you have questions about passports, you are forced to call a "1-900" number. I find this irritating.

JJ

 

JJ,

I read your post several times to be sure I understood you and that we weren’t saying the same thing just in different ways. But when you said you could not get some of the digital channels on your analog TV that made me rethink everything I thought I understood. Also we have probably beat this poor horse enough, but here goes again. Now remember I’m no expert. I’m just trying to understand all of this like everyone else.

First, when you say you “have a TV that gets both standard and digital.” I am not sure what you mean. I did not think this was how it worked. I thought you got either an analog or a digital signal. Then after you were receiving a digital signal you could watch it in standard definition or high definition. Both analog and digital TV’s have the capability to display both the standard definition and the high definition broadcast, but the high definition signal will not be much better (if any) than the standard signal unless you actually have a high definition TV.

Also, yes, I am (was) under the impression that if you hooked up your analog TV to a cable service you would receive and be able to see all the same channels as a digital TV on the same service. Our analog TV’s do this. As far as I know we get exactly the same channels on the analog TV’s as we do on the digital with two BIG exceptions. 1. We subscribe to some movie channels on one digital TV only. We do not get these on any of our other TV’s no matter what they are. We do have a “box” on this TV because that is how the cable company regulates access to the movie channels we pay for. If we had a box on the other TV's we should be able to get the movie channels on them also (with one exception, see #2) 2. One of our analog TV’s is SO old it is not able to receive channels above 99. I guess its tuner just doesn’t go that high. (I know it’s ancient, but it works and it's even in color.) So in this case we do not get all the digital channels that are available from the cable service. I just don’t know enough about it to understand why your analog TV does not receive the exact same channels as your digital TV’s, but is it possible your analog TV is so old you have the same situation as we do?

Bottom line seems to be that you know how it works at your house, and I know how it works at mine (at least I think I do). And I guess that’s the best we can do for now. Gee, we didn’t even get to the TV’s in our RV’s yet. Won’t that be fun?

 

QUOTE
First, when you say you “have a TV that gets both standard and digital.” I am not sure what you mean. I did not think this was how it worked. I thought you got either an analog or a digital signal.

You can only receive what the station broadcasts. For example, some stations broadcast only in analog while others broadcast in both analog & digital. A HD TV can receive either signal, but an older TV can only handle an analog signal - unless it has a converter box to unscramble the digital signal. However, a converter box only allows you to watch the programming. It will not produce a high definition picture on a non-HD TV.

 

QUOTE(Texasrvers @ Mar 27 2008, 09:06 PM) [snapback]10924[/snapback]

JJ,
First, when you say you “have a TV that gets both standard and digital.” I am not sure what you mean. I did not think this was how it worked. I thought you got either an analog or a digital signal. Then after you were receiving a digital signal you could watch it in standard definition or high definition. Both analog and digital TV’s have the capability to display both the standard definition and the high definition broadcast, but the high definition signal will not be much better (if any) than the standard signal unless you actually have a high definition TV.

Also, yes, I am (was) under the impression that if you hooked up your analog TV to a cable service you would receive and be able to see all the same channels as a digital TV on the same service. Our analog TV’s do this. As far as I know we get exactly the same channels on the analog TV’s as we do on the digital with two BIG exceptions. 1. We subscribe to some movie channels on one digital TV only. We do not get these on any of our other TV’s no matter what they are. We do have a “box” on this TV because that is how the cable company regulates access to the movie channels we pay for. If we had a box on the other TV's we should be able to get the movie channels on them also (with one exception, see #2) 2. One of our analog TV’s is SO old it is not able to receive channels above 99. I guess its tuner just doesn’t go that high. (I know it’s ancient, but it works and it's even in color.) So in this case we do not get all the digital channels that are available from the cable service. I just don’t know enough about it to understand why your analog TV does not receive the exact same channels as your digital TV’s, but is it possible your analog TV is so old you have the same situation as we do?



My digital TV (It's a VIZIO brand) has two inputs (where you connect the cable). One input is "standard" and when I scan the channels on "standard," I get the same channels as my analog TV (which I purchased in 2002, so it's not that old....., it's actually a 14 inch flat screen liquid crystal display). The other input is "digital" and when I scan under the "digital" input I get those extra channels. I put a splitter on it so I could switch back and forth between standard and digital. I don't know why I would want to do that, but I just did it anyway.

Again, the digital input of my VIZIO TV scans three extra channels (and a crap load of audio channels) that I CANNOT GET ON MY ANALOG! (I also cannot get those channels on the STANDARD input of the VIZIO TV.) So, I ordered a coupon! But I don't have it yet. Again, I say, "MOMMY MOMMY, THE EMPEROR IS NOT WEARING CLOTHES!"

As for the TV's in our RV's problem. My Forest River Sunseeker 2860 (purchased in 2005) has an analog TV. The coupon I ordered was actually supposed to go in my RV, but I was going to swap it back and forth between my home (analog TV) and my RV. But, I solved the RV problem by, guess what, traded up to a new RV (as of two days ago)! Haven't picked it up yet, but soon I will be camping in a Forest River Sunseeker Model 3120! With a DIGITAL READY TV. Now my RV Televison problem is the dealer's problem. Kind of an expensive way to solve that problem. (the way the TV was installed in the Model 2860, well, it would be a pain in the butt to switch the TV's.....)

JJ

 

QUOTE
But, I solved the RV problem by, guess what, traded up to a new RV (as of two days ago)!

Thank you, DSMAC, for pointing out the most simple of solutions. Forget the coupons - if one just trades in their TV (with RV attached) they will receive a new High Definition TV (with RV attached) that will ensure their compatibility over the air for years to come. Sometimes the best solutions are often the most overlooked. :lol:

It bothers me that the government is involved in this in the first place. Coupons? Cmon. Don't forget that the government has nothing to give to us that it has not taken from us in the first place.

 

There is another solution but I reommend you not take it. I saw an ad for a firm in Elkhart that replaces your old analog TV with a new bigger screen digital TV. This would solve the problem of the converter box. Unfortunately, I asked for, and received, a quote. The quote to remove our old 26" TV and modify the coach for a 36" flat screen digital TV, was $9,500, AND THAT DID NOT INCLUDE THE COST Of THE TV!. I think I will do just fine having a converter box installed and watching the 26" unit.

 

JJ,

Congratulations on your new RV. Your story about buying it to get a new digital TV sounds similar to what we did. We went to Camping World one day just to buy toilet paper and came out with a brand new motor home. Unfortunately it did not come equipped with toilet paper. We still had to buy that. :lol:

Spring is here so get out there and have some fun in your new RV!

 

QUOTE(denbroncs @ Mar 28 2008, 07:15 AM) [snapback]10928[/snapback]

Thank you, DSMAC, for pointing out the most simple of solutions. Forget the coupons - if one just trades in their TV (with RV attached) they will receive a new High Definition TV (with RV attached) that will ensure their compatibility over the air for years to come. Sometimes the best solutions are often the most overlooked. :lol:



Reminds me of a Bill Engvall (Blue Collar humor) joke:

"Get a new RV?"

"Nope, got a new TV. RV came with it. HERE'S YOUR SIGN!"

And when people that know I have the 2860 see the 3120 and ask, "Didja get a new RV?" I'm actually going to say, "Nope, got a new TV, RV came with it."

JJ :lol:

 

Absolutely love the Blue Collar boys:
...Git er done
...Here's your sign
...Tator tot
...you know yer a Redneck, if...

You GO girl !!!!

 

JJ,

I laughed out loud when I read your "Here's your sign" joke. I'm still laughing. Good one!

 

Before this discussion becomes even more muddied, let me suggest a link that should clear things up:

http://dtvfacts.com/digital-tv-converter-box/

It's simply worded, it's direct, and you can follow links to your specific issues.

In the RV world, the main problem would be over the air signals going digital. A simple converter box costing around $50-$60 solves the problem. It's no bigger than most DVD players and should be easy to install for a lot of RVers.

 

QUOTE(Trentheim @ Mar 31 2008, 06:30 AM) [snapback]10976[/snapback]

Before this discussion becomes even more muddied, let me suggest a link that should clear things up:

http://dtvfacts.com/digital-tv-converter-box/

It's simply worded, it's direct, and you can follow links to your specific issues.

In the RV world, the main problem would be over the air signals going digital. A simple converter box costing around $50-$60 solves the problem. It's no bigger than most DVD players and should be easy to install for a lot of RVers.



Although the web site mentioned above didn't specifically come out and admit it, if you "read between the lines," there was an implication of the issue I brought up earlier: "If having cable means we don't need to do anything, how come I get four extra channels on my digital TV but don't get them on my analog TV?" It was in the section about "not being authorized to downconvert."

I still don't have my coupon. I just checked my printout, and I "fessed up" about having cable. I should have lied.

JJ

 

I finally got my coupon! Originally, this coupon was supposed to be for the TV in my RV, but that is now a "moot" point. However, I'm going to get a box for my analog TV in my bedroom at home and see if it makes a difference in the channels I can scan.....

The "coupon" is more like a debit card, with a number on it, that I'm sure is tied to your name somewhere......

There is a list of specific model numbers that are "authorized" for the coupon.

Also, if you are in a "low power" area (you receive your analog signal through a translator station), there are certain models you should buy, they are shown on the "authorized list" with a "star" ( * ). These models are capable of passing an analog signal through to your TV set. If you are a "full-timer" that bops around a lot to different areas, you might want to be sure to buy one of the models that is good for "low power" areas.

According to this website ( https://www.dtv2009.gov/lowpower/ ), "translator" stations are not required to comply with the Feb 2009 edict. If there is any chance you would travel to a "low power" area, you need to buy the model that can pass through an analog signal to your TV. One such model that is "marked" as such is ECHOSTAR TR-40 and MAGNAVOX TB-100MG9. This part doesn't make "sense" to me. A translator station can only rebroadcast what it gets, and it would seem to me that the translator stations are merely rebroadcasting the digital signals, unless they are rebroadcasting them by turning them into analog...... Who knows! I'm not an engineer!

On the "questions" page, it says, "does the coupon need to be activated" and the answer is "no, it is already active." I called around to ask if you had to provide your name and address to use these (I'm a privacy freak, I don't give out my stuff unless the law says I have to!). Best Buy said "NO." RadioShack said, "We have to ask your name and zip code only...." They didn't say if that was a RadioShack policy or the fed's requirement for redeeming the coupon......

Oh yeah. The "authorized" stores are: Best Buy, Circuit City, RadioShack, and Wal-Mart. There are also a couple of "e-tailers" that are authorized for online ordering.

JJ