Update Name?

Being able to reply to reviews is not a new idea. It is done on other review websites.

From initial discussions about this feature it is my understanding that park owners will only be allowed to reply once to each review, and the discussion will not continue after that because at that point, both sides will have presented their view and it is now up to the reader to decide which version is more accurate. Keep in mind this is just what came out of the first discussions and may not be the final policy.

QUOTE
Plus who cares what the park owner has to say about HIS park.....do you think it's going to be honest ??


I think a lot of us care what owners have to say about their park, and I also think the owner replies will be as honest as the review. I also think there are always two sides to a story, and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

QUOTE
The only HONEST review that will be made is by an anonymous poster.


I would hope that everyone writes an honest review, but that doesn't happen. The reality is anonymity provides the opportunity to be less honest or, to state that more politely, let's say the opportunity to embellish or exaggerate. If I know my name (username) is going to be attached to the review, I will be sure that the information I provide is accurate. It also appears that this policy helps reviewers stick more to presenting the facts rather than their opinion. As another poster said recently, tell me that there is road noise, but do not tell me that the park is horrible because of it.

QUOTE
Not something I would be interested in wasting my time reading in the review section of a park I'm interested in visiting.


No one is going to make you read the rebuttals, and again it is not all worked out, but I am sure the rebuttals will not be visible with the original review. To see the rebuttal you will need to click on a tab that will display it. So the choice to read it or not will be yours.

I know you have concerns, but if you will wait for the new website to come out, I think you will find that many of them will be unfounded.

 

Hi,

I think a lot of folks are opposed to having their avatar on the review. I know I certainly am.

I do agree campground owners should be allowed to reply to reviews, but it should be a limited exchange.

 

Folks, I am the owner of RV Park Reviews and wanted to address the various comments and concerns voiced in this discussion. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, they are very important. Please rest assured we'll be discussing these comments and looking for solutions in the week(s) ahead.

First off, just to repeat what has already been said above.

WE WILL NOT DISCLOSE YOUR PERSONAL
INFORMATION SUCH AS YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.

CAMPGROUND OWNERS WILL NOT HAVE ACCESS
TO YOUR EMAIL OR OTHER PERSONAL INFORMATION.

Currently each reviewer has a profile page that shows all the reviews they left in the past. This is very important because it allows a reader to read the other reviews of a reviewer to help them understand how much trust they should give to that person's reviews. For example, if someone reads a negative review that highlights issues with customer service and then proceeds to read the other reviews of the same reviewer. If all the reviews are negative and include customer service/management issues it's possible that a reader might surmise that the reviewer has a higher propensity to use our system to "get even". Thus the reader might discount those reviews in their decision making process.

The new system is designed to help readers get a quick overview of a reviewer so they can "size them up" at a glance. This will include the number of years they have been a member, total number of reviews, the number of states visited, number of reviews that have been marked as helpful, etc. We feel strongly that providing readers more information about the reviewer will help them decide which reviews to give more trust.

If a reader consistently shares the same perspective as another reviewer on the parks they stay at, he/she will likely give that reviewer's reviews more trust. As we move forward we want to do so in a way that empowers people to gain trust in each other and not be guided by fear. Yes, there are legitimate concerns but I feel strongly that the benefits of building a system that embraces more transparency and trust outweigh the negatives and will empower us to build a better resource in the long run.

There appears to be one main concern regarding the change and that is of privacy. As we have stated previously your Email will not be shared with the campground owners. That means the issues come down to one primary thing; fear the campground owner will figure out who the reviewer is and thus treat them differently if they leave a negative review.

Since a user can change their username to anything they wish such as Anonymous2398 they will be able to remain anonymous. Heck, if you are from the south and have a distinct southern draw, you can go one step further and pick a username such as Northern Yankee. Users will be able to choose this name so they can decide how much personally identifiable information they want to include.

When it comes to libel and fearing that a campground owner might find your true identity easier, I would suggest two things. Don't post reviews that contain libel and choose a username that allows you to remain totally anonymous. Keep in mind being anonymous does not protect you from a court order that asks us to disclose your private information. If we are served with a legal request from an authority with proper legal jurisdiction, we must comply with legal process and provide them the private data that is being requested. This change will not make any difference from our current system to the new system. A court order can ask for the private info about any user right now and reference that user by a the text of a specific review, the current reviewer's ID or by your anonymous handle in the future. It's all the same, if a court says hand it over, we have to comply. Please keep in mind we would try to defend our members and donate annually to the Electronic Frontiers Foundation. We do take our member's privacy very seriously and only when absolutely forced by law would we provide any private data to the courts.

You all do have a point that reviews will be linked to the posts in the forums and some people have chosen to include personally identifiable information in their forum signatures and potentially in posts from the past. I'll talk to the development team about some potential solutions.

One potential solution would be to allow users to review their forum posts and we'll edit any that have any personally identifiable information. Same thing would go for your signatures, simply remove your personal identifiable information if your intent is to remain as anonymous as possible.

Another potential solution that we will discuss would be to allow users who have demonstrated that personally identifiable information was posted to the forums to use a separate forum name. So you would have your anonymous reviewer profile and a different name for here in the forums (same setup as it is now). If we can develop this, the option would only be granted on a case-by-case basis as it goes against the tenets of trying to foster trust. Please keep in mind someone who has not disclosed any personally identifiable information has nothing to risk and also most of our reviewers have never even posted here in the forums.

As for the campground owners, allowing them to respond seems only fair. The vision was that they would get one response and they would likely not be able to edit it. This would prevent back and forth between the reviewer and the campground management. If you look at reviews on sites like Trip Advisor you will notice that you can learn a lot from the responses of the campground owners. Some take the time to individually thank the folks who left positive reviews and they also acknowledge the less then favorable reviews and communicate to the person that they are sorry and will try to work harder in the future to meet their customers needs. Others will fire off emotionally charged responses which often support the reviewers negative perspective. Seeing responses will provide our readers another tidbit of information about a park to help them decide. Some parks won't have any one official who can respond (State Park) so there will be no change.

Another item to note (I'm sure someone will bring it up) we plan to have a "Was this review helpful?" with a Yes/No button to the right. We hope this will get used considerably and provide another metric for readers to trust the reviewers. We understand there is potential for abuse and will build algorithms to identify patterns of abuse. For example, if we have a couple of long time high review count members suggest a review is helpful that's a very positive data point. If we then have a member with no reviews suggesting a review is not helpful (possibly an unethical campground owner) we will be able to identify these patters and look more closely at those users. We will block off the campground owner from being able to click on the "Was this review helpful?" buttons on their own listings.

I understand it's our nature to be nervous about changes and it's great that everyone is discussing the issues here. The internet is evolving and we need to keep pushing things forward. We'll find solutions to the concerns and when we look back in 5 years we'll be proud that continued to build on top of this amazing resource! For example, one idea we have for our smartphone apps is a download speed test. Wouldn't it be nice to get real world results from a campground and not have to believe someone who says the internet was fast or slow? We can do the same thing with cell phone signal. We just need to keep pushing forward and believe that changes can lead to better things. We'll get through this and be better for it.

I'll post back later this week after I have a chance to talk to developers about potential solutions. Thanks for your feedback and patience!

 

I wasn't able to actually talk to the specific software developer that I was hoping to chat with at our meeting today. He took off a couple days with this week (extended Labor Day vacation). I did talk to the other folks on who are helping and think we have a solution.

Basically, we'll communicate with users about the changes once again and remind them to update their user names again. We will also let them know that if they have any personally identifiable information in the forums such as signatures, posts, username, etc, to contact us and we will review these on a case-by-case basis. If we can confirm that the user has personally identifiable information we'll be able to setup the system so their reviews will show up under an anonymous name (of their choosing) and their forum posts show up under another name. This will keep the two separate.

I'll post more on Thursday when I talk to the developer.

 

Why not just make that a user selectable option? We currently can select a "display name" that's different from our login ID, would having a "reviewer name" be that much different?

 

Dutch, that's essentially what we are proposing but it would be available on a case-by-case basis for those who can demonstrate personal information has been shared in the past (forum signatures, personal details in posts, etc). We want to make sure those with valid concerns will be taken care of.

For those who have never posted any personal information, they can simply update their username to anything they want, it will remain totally anonymous.

 

I suspect that would limit the type of information we'll want to share on the forum then. We can be much more candid if we know that our reviews are not tied to our forum posts.

 

QUOTE(NYDutch @ Sep 3 2014, 07:58 PM) [snapback]38157[/snapback]

I suspect that would limit the type of information we'll want to share on the forum then. We can be much more candid if we know that our reviews are not tied to our forum posts.

Good point and noted. I will talk with the team to see if we can find a solution.

 

Thanks, Andy. Making it a user selectable option might cover all the bases.

 

QUOTE(Tiffinman @ Sep 1 2014, 03:18 PM) [snapback]38081[/snapback]

The only HONEST review that will be made is by an anonymous poster.



Dude, what movie is playing on the flight back to YOUR planet???

Anonymity provides much more brazen attacks on strangers than one's true identity. How do you think the terms "keyboard cowboy" or "internet thug" came about? People will say outlandish and assanine things, make outrageous statements, or make rude personal remarks towards people that they would NEVER SAY in person because of anonymity.

Anonymity provides honesty? Sure... and I'm a 6'4" handsome neurosurgeon, physically fit, who is not married, loves his mother, goes to church every Sunday, reads to the blind every Thursday night after picking up litter off the highway. Honest! I swear!!!

Find my reviews. They're honest. If you truly doubt their truthfulness, I'll post my name, address, and picture of myself on this forum...

Right after I finish this brain surgery...

 

Hi BomerNY,

I stay in a small city where there is only one RV park open in the winter. It is not a place I would choose to stay, normally, but there is no choice.

If I post an honest review, and owner can identify me, he could easily ban me. So I'm left with a choice of leaving a less than frank review, no review at all, or potentially having no place to stay.

If I post anonymously then I can be frank and fair.

 

QUOTE(pianotuna @ Sep 24 2014, 07:01 PM) [snapback]38434[/snapback]

Hi BomerNY,

I stay in a small city where there is only one RV park open in the winter. It is not a place I would choose to stay, normally, but there is no choice.

If I post an honest review, and owner can identify me, he could easily ban me. So I'm left with a choice of leaving a less than frank review, no review at all, or potentially having no place to stay.

If I post anonymously then I can be frank and fair.




I get that, but (honest question), have you ever heard of someone being banned from a campground for giving negative feedback?

I guess my point was if someone anonymously posts negative feedback, their tone tends to be more aggressive and they tend to over exaggerate what may be valid points (Yes, I'm over-generalizing here). At which point, their feedback boarders on useless, as most of us can seemingly discern what is legitimate feedback versus an honest review.

The other observation I've come to is it does a campground little good for someone to come on a forum and blast their perceived shortcomings of a park if they've not had a face-to-face conversation with ownership or management of that park. The manager can't help fix a situation after the fact or after a camper has left their park. The few times I've had an issue that needed addressing at a campground, I've gone to management and addressed my concerns in a civil manner. I've yet to have been treated rudely or witnessed any mistreatment of a camper as a result of an honest gripe or discussion.

Surely, if a camper were to be combative towards management right from the get-go, I can see the park being defensive and unwilling to appease the complainer. If a camper were dropping expletives and foul language, or seemingly had a few too many libations prior to puffing his chest out to bark his complaints, I'd give management a fair amount of latitude in their handling of the situation.

To your specific situation with your local park: have you had discussions with them regarding your opinions of their park? What is the shortcomings of their campground? Have they been dismissive with your legitimate concerns? Lastly, if the park is that lacking where it inhibits your ability to relax and enjoy this passion we share, why would you continue to give them your business, regardless of lack of options?

Honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I think this is a worthy discussion to be had, and I'm looking to correct my own misconceptions. I don't consider myself to be as seasoned a camper as many others are, and am always looking for other points of view.

Regards...

Boomer

 

QUOTE(BoomerNY @ Sep 25 2014, 03:47 PM) [snapback]38446[/snapback]

Lastly, if the park is that lacking where it inhibits your ability to relax and enjoy this passion we share, why would you continue to give them your business, regardless of lack of options?


Obviously you're not aware that Don travels in his RV to take care of his wide spread clientele, not to sit around a campfire making s'mores...

 

Hi B,

The nearest alternative is a one hour drive. They have banned folks for parking on the grass for 5 minutes. I don't have another choice. Unless I wish to fill a propane tank ever 2 days and run a generator 24/7.

QUOTE(BoomerNY @ Sep 25 2014, 01:47 PM) [snapback]38446[/snapback]

To your specific situation with your local park: have you had discussions with them regarding your opinions of their park? What is the shortcomings of their campground? Have they been dismissive with your legitimate concerns? Lastly, if the park is that lacking where it inhibits your ability to relax and enjoy this passion we share, why would you continue to give them your business, regardless of lack of options?



Boomer

 

As everyone who reads the forum posts know, the site is under new management. Those in charge of it have indicated that some substantial changes are coming soon. Hopefully, they are positive.

I suspect that in making that transition, while trying to keep the present system in place, it has resulted in some website coding issues that have caused problems that have caused us readers and reviewers to have some temporarily concerns.

I have read all of the comments about new ID names. I assume that the change is for the protection of our privacy. It is something that any reputable internet site would do for it's customers even tho it's really a pain in the posterior for us to comply with.

It appears that some of the volunteer Admins here have tried to answer our concerns and the Help Desk desk staff is probably working overtime to do the same.

Let's cut them a little slack, be patient, and see what the new proposed site brings us.

 

Bomer, you said:
"The few times I've had an issue that needed addressing at a campground, I've gone to management and addressed my concerns in a civil manner. I've yet to have been treated rudely or witnessed any mistreatment of a camper as a result of an honest gripe or discussion."

I'm glad you have been able to resolve any issues you have had in this professional manner, but you must not read many of the negative reviews on this site to see the multitude of issues campers face. What about issues where the neighbors are partying until 2:00am (past quiet hours) and there is no management available, or, management doesnt care. What if management is the problem, like berating the customers, losing reservations, or just not caring about the quality of the park or the rules (or caring too much and being a rule nazi).

All issues that cannot be resolved by going to management, because management is the problem.

 

Hello Folks newbe here. I have been reading/using this site for years. I'm confused on why all the concern about recognition and retaliation from park owners ? If your concerned that an owner will connect a negative review with a specific e-mail address and match it to a site reservation made with the same address there's an easy fix. I'm assuming most members have more than one computer and ( IP ) e-mail address. So I will leave the rest to ones imagination. h34r:

Or am I missing something here.

 

Welcome to the forum!

If it were as simple as using a throwaway email address, it would not be be a problem. The issue is that messages we post on the forum sometimes contain much more detailed information in response to an unrelated topic, and that information could be used to identify a specific campground visitor, making all of our campground registration information known to the campground management. While likely not a major issue overall, a campground owner could conceivably take retaliatory measures over a bad review. Those measures could include anything from being banned from the campground to a lawsuit.

 

QUOTE(Mamaluca @ Sep 26 2014, 09:12 AM) [snapback]38458[/snapback]

Hello Folks newbe here. I have been reading/using this site for years. I'm confused on why all the concern about recognition and retaliation from park owners ? If your concerned that an owner will connect a negative review with a specific e-mail address and match it to a site reservation made with the same address there's an easy fix. I'm assuming most members have more than one computer and ( IP ) e-mail address. So I will leave the rest to ones imagination. h34r:

Or am I missing something here.



I think the issue is that the owner will link the review with specific occurrences such as someone complaining that the bathrooms were dirty, the neighbors were loud, etc. If he recalls who made those complaints he might retaliate against the person who made them. OTOH if you don't complain but simply document the issues I don't see how the review would get correlated with any particular person who stayed at the park unless you, again, write about something that is very specifically related to yourself.